Re: Minivan Comaprison

Why do Ford, GM, and Chrysler cars test out so poorly compared to others?

If CR is biased because they rank imports over domestics most of the time, is Car & Driver biased for doing so most of the time too?

You think imports should be ranked below domestics just because they're imports. THAT's bias.

Al Franken's book exposes her lies, with references like LexusNexus.

C/D has reported on major problems in their long-term tests. But you're right

-- if they lose the good will of manufacturers, they lose cars to test. That's why CR, which buys their cars at dealers, is more objective.

But remember, MT's criterion is only significanly new cars are eligible. What else was there that year (83) that was totally new?

Why?

Still no argument?

Yes.

Why is CR consistently biased against Ford and GM and even Chrysler cars since they are all supposed to be international now?

Biased against one type of car? How do you figure that?

1992 Chevy Caprice with 311,000 miles and original motor and transmission. Still running fine, no oil burning etc.

1987 Ford T-Bird with 187,000 miles on it, original engine, tranny replaced by dealer at 35,000 miles or so and running fine as well.

2000 Dodge Caravan with about 50,000 on it and while it has had it's share of troubles, all have been warranty repairs. (powertrain module, steering rack, 2 sets of swaybar bushings, battery, idler pulley). Quite honestly I doubt this one will ever see 200,000 miles but we shall see.

2003 VW Jetta GLS with about 10,000 miles on it and clearly a very high quality, well made car not to mention a hell of a lot of fun to drive.

I do all of my own work excepting for warranty repairs.

As you can see, I put a lot of miles on my cars and they last a LONG time because I take care of them myself and do the job right instead of letting Joe "Lube Jockey" X-thread my oil drain plug.

In addition to that, I travel quite a lot on business and as a result I get the opportunity to drive many different late model Hertz rentals, usually for at least a week at a time.

Here is the short list:

Ford Taurus: One of the worst cars made. It does nothing well.

Ford Mustang (V6, usually a convertible): Fun car but can't get out of it's own way even with 190hp v6. A mystery to me. I think it is the gearing. Real cheap insides.

Mitsubishi Outlander: A real slug with an engine that roars yet the SUV doesn't move. Also quite ugly looking, although it looks a little like that Lexus SUV from the back.

Ford Escape: Cheap interior (XLT), lot's of power and a very solid feel to it. Silver/orange/puke green gauges. You have to see it to believe it. Got all of 8 mpg when I had one last month.

Toyota Corolla: Nice car, fun to drive. A baby Camry. The NYC potholes will swallow this baby up though.

Toyota Camry: Very nice car. Solid but kind of boring to drive. I have a friend who has 2 of them and parts prices are insane.

Nissan Maxima: Last one I had was about 2 years ago so this might be dated. Dashboard looks like Tokyo by night and I found the controls confusing. Comfortable but not for a tall person like me at 6'1". Only drove this for 2 days before it wouldn't start and Hertz had to bring me another car, which was a Camry.

Suburu Outback: Very nice car with terrible ergonomics. I couldn't raise the steering wheel high enough, or lower the seat low enough to get in and out without my knees getting stuck under the steering column. Otherwise a nice, although overpriced car.

I could go on and on..................

BTW I have no bias against foreign cars and in fact I like the German cars best because they are a very high quality product, BMW in particular. They are also very expensive to repair.

I don't like most Japanese cars because they simply can't hold up to driving in hostile places like NYC and the surrounding area's and holding up over 100,000 miles. The parts are grossly overpriced. Repair manuals (official factory FSM, not Haynes etc) are difficult to come by and often leave out a lot of information if you can even get one.

There are exceptions, Lexus is an excellent car for example, but the typical Nissan/Toyota/Mistsubishi etc are tin boxes from what I have seen and driven.

psycho

Try reading some of Ann Coulter's books.

Those rags are even worse than CR. The cars they get are "juiced" by the manufacturers. They rarely find anything seriously wrong with the cars, even the long term reports and when they do they fluff it off.

I gave up on C&D, Motortrend etc when the AMC Alliance won "Car of the Year" one year.

That was arguably one of the worst car's ever made and allowing it to win was clearly a stunt designed to attempt to inject some interest ($$$$ sales) into a dying company.

wrote

Personally I find the Camry has Ergonomics problems. I find it's quite a stretch when I'm in the drivers seat to adjust the radio. And I'm not the only person that finds this. Other than that all cars seem more or less the same.

Go to the Chrysler museum. Right by the K-car there is a sign that talks about how a lot of FWD Chrysler cars were K-car derived.

Nice snip job.....

If you had learned how to read in grammar school, you would see that what you claim is not even close to what I am saying.

Obviously, like others have pointed out, you are an idiot, so I will waste no more time with you.

psycho

They also voted the AMC/Renault Alliance "Car of the Year" at one point.

I rest my case.

The seat cushion is too short in most imports. Honda is the worst.

I am 6'1" tall and 175lbs and rice burners are miserable cars for me to drive.

I am much more comfortable in a BMW 3 series than any jap car.

Franken is a known mouthpiece for the left wing agenda. Only a fool would consider his reporting un biased.

How about reading something by a person who worked in the media, and for a left wing organization at that.

Try Bias by Bernard Goldberg, who exposes the Liberal Media for exactly what it is.

And who should know better?

He spent many years at CBS.

You're way out of your league this time Lloyd........

Go back to worshiping rice burners and trading them in before the strut mounts fatigue and come flying through the towers like missles. That and $2000 exhaust systems (Suburu) usually make themselves known at just around 100k miles. How about $450 alternators? How about $90.00 pieces of flex hose (Mazda MPV from the air cleaner to the duct) Yea...$90.00..... A friend just replaced one because a leak was causing some sensor to screw up his engine fuel mixture. I think it was a MAF sensor but I am not certain.

Gee, it cost me $3.50 for the one on my Caprice. Alternator? Two years ago at 200k miles and it was $45.00 for a 100 amp model. Starter? Last year at around 275k miles and it was $65.00 for the heavy duty model.

Power steering pump also at about 275k miles was $50.00 plus $25.00 for BOTH hoses. Tool rental for the pulley puller was free at Autozone.

back to me Lloyd when you have rice burners with over 300k milesand the original engines and trannys and that are still runningstrong.

Talk to me when you don't have to pay $200 for a starter motor that I can get for am American car for less than $100.00

psycho

Lot's of cars, but you are correct on one point, CR claims to buy their cars anonymously. I think Ted is saying that the manufacturers send them unsolicited cars thoug.