> I think there are people here who are qualified to give valuable advice
> on this subject or steer me to those who can.
>
Wow, I just went through a similar but milder experience. Young girl, cruised a stop sign and made a left into my car (driven by someone else who is listed on my insurance). Her third at fault in I think it was 6 months. She avoided talking to her insurance company, wanting to put it all off until after her HS graduation :)
I worked with a really good person from my insurance company, who explained a lot to me about how these claims and settlements work.
I might think that if your insurance company will offer you an amount that you feel is fair, that may be your best path. Your insurance company has resources that you may not, that can be brought to bear to collect from the other insurance company.
Bill, I've run into this situation a couple of times - different circumstances, but the same problem.
My 1980 Corolla wagon had the cruise control stick, holding the throttle at about 1/2. My wife managed to get it to her brother's driveway with both feet on the brakes, - threw it into park and shut off the key. It deiseled. The cat flashed white hot and burned the floor-mat, console, and the corner of the driver's seat. She put the fire out with a garden hose.
The insurance company WANTED to write it off. The car was worth about $2500, and they wanted to give me $1500. I said no dice, and countered with a proposal to accept $1200 and the car. After a bit of dickering, they came around. I bought $250 worth of used parts and fixed the car. Put the rest in the bank in preparation for replacing the car in a couple years. The insurance company even put comp back on the car after examining the car after my repairs.
Second incident was mother-in-law's Mustang. It had aftermarket A/C. The cooling fan (rad) went south, and it melted the wiring harness. The car had been previously damaged (slight rear end collision) and not yet repaired - and it really needed a paint job - but only had about 80,000Km on it. Her insurance co wanted to write it off for $1000. Said it was in rough shape. I got prices from several used car dealers for the equivalent car - and quotes from 3 body shops for repaint. I deducted the repaint price from the used car lot price to arrive at a "reasonable" price - about $4600, and reminded them they were ALREADY on the hook for the rear end damage. They did not want to get into the wiring, because they and the dealer claimed they would not know where to stop, and the price could go sky-high. I got a quote on the parts - wiring harness and fan motor and submitted it, then made them an offer. I would accept $2600 cash, and the car on my mother-in-law's behalf and transport the car from Windsor to Waterloo.
They paid out, and for $2700 I put in the new harness, fan, and a new rad, repaired the collision damage and repainted the entire car. She drove it another 4 years and sold it for $4000.
It helped that I was a mechanic, in both cases, because I could give them "expert opinion"
There was a post on here a month of so ago about a web page to look at for tips and help on insurance companies and their scams to delay payouts in accident claims. Geico was one of the worst from what I read. One of the main advice topics was to take the no-fault claim through your insurance company and let them battle it out with the other one. Just get a fair replacement example or two and that should be all you need. Some of the people on there basically tried for over a year to get the company to respond and get the claims settled. Some companies just ignored people. And I think that's one of the main reasons that no-fault came about. At least in Pennsylvania.
Steve m... sorry I don't remember the web site name.... maybe someone else remembers it. Anyone ?
Bill, in some states you might be able to have the insurance company actually replace the car. They use a broker to find another one at auction that matches what you had, more or less, and you get to say yea or nay. If you really liked this car for some reason (what kind of car was it, anyway?) and would be satisfied with another one, you might pursue this avenue.
Otherwise, I'd take my own insurance company up on their offer of negotiating with the other driver's insurance company. They may or may not give you what you want for the car, but they're going to be much better at the negotiation process than you would be while doing it for the first time.
As far as your rates going up is concerned, that's going to be influenced by the insurance company policy and the laws in your state. No harm done to just ask them what will happen--they will do what they ordinarily would anyway, right? And you can always change insurers if you're dissatisfied with the experience.
Sadly, there's no such thing as an indisputable opinion on *anything*. Kelly and NADA are both credible, but the point is that nothing is worth more than what somebody pays for it in a given transaction. Local market conditions always have an effect, and frequently it's to drive the going rate downward from what's in the price books. That's why the alternative of having the insurance company just replace the car is usually provided.
meaningless?
At some point, they say "Well, we're the insurance company, and we win!" -- then you have to go to court. Bottom line is this: life is too short to let this turn into too big of a deal. Show them a few pictures of comparable cars on used lots along with the dealer's asking price. If they still say you're full of it, either have them get you another car, or take their top offer and remember the experience when it comes time to renew the policy. Sadly, the little guy often just can't win in situations like this.
This is NOT true in all states, it is certainly not true in Oregon. I already tried this trick once and got educated quickly. In Oregon, the law only requires them to pay you fair market value on replacement vehicles. You cannot force them to spend more than the car is worth restoring your wreck to pre-wreck conditions, you cannot demand they supply you with an equivalent car, motorcycle, farm tractor, or livestock, all the law requires them to do is pay you, period.
Just to clarify, just because you claim against your insurance company, this doesen't mean it's a no-fault. In a no-fault, both insurance companies decide not to pursue claims against each other. I believe in some states, this lets both insurance companies jack rates up against their policyholders and this is why they both choose no-fault all the time.
In a claim against your collision coverage, your insurance company decides that your at fault or not. If you are, then they don't file a claim against the other company and they may raise your rates. If you aren't, they may elect to pursue it with the other company or not, but your rates don't change.
Wow - Thanks for all the helpful advice! This helps me greatly in countering the b.s.
I will be replying to a few responses where I feel some urge to respond, but be assured that I appreciate all of the advice and information. I'm not out to cheat anybody, but I am determined not to get ripped off either. Unfortunately the way they operate, it's very tempting to go over the line in hopes that the compromise at the end has some semblance of fairness. But like we tell our kids: "Life isn't always fair!".
I did go around to the used car lots in town yesterday and found a few similar makes and years - nothing real close. Even realising that the asking price is always negotiable downward, all I can say is that - without exception - the ones I saw are trashed compared to the mechanical and cosmetic condition of my daughter's car (pre-accident of course) - cigarette burns in the upholstery, scratches all over the paint, poorly repaired accident damage, etc., and they were all $1000 to $2000 higher than what I have been willing to settle for and still am, and none would have been a suitable replacement because of their condition.
Also, someone privately e-mailed me (thanks Ed M) to suggest searching the on-line Auto Trader. I had gone out yesterday and bought the hard copy local version - no cars of this make and year listed. But I did not realize that there was a searchable on-line version. I did a search on a 200 mile radius - 15 of same make/model/year turned up! Average asking: $4284 (that was with a generous bi-lateral $500 to $10,000 price filter applied). (and, again I realize that those are negotiable downward, but I also realize that some of those are low-ball bait prices too to get you onto the lot).
As the old "Latin" saying goes: "NON ILLEGITAME CARBORUNDUM!" ("Don't let the bastards wear you down!").
Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")
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