steering fluid substitute

Let's think about this step-by-step.

The purpose of a system flush is to remove stuff that's not supposed to be there.

The only stuff that's supposed to be there is power steering fluid, and unless your car's manufacturer specifies automatic transmission fluid for use in the steering system, the fluid is one of several purpose-specific formulations.

If you flush the system with something other than the correct fluid, you will have a system full of stuff that's not supposed to be there (incorrect fluid) and will then have to flush it through *again* with the correct fluid. Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, does it?

DS

So, where the part where you teach Dan something??

Or was it how to be irrelevant?

I think it was how to ruin an engine running it on kerosene as a lubricant...

Matt

Depends on how thoroughly you want (or need) to remove the "stuff that's not supposed to be there". Using a solvent is usually how you remove oil and grease, for example.

Actually, like most products in the automotive isle, crank-case flush is, I believe, simply re-packaged kerosene.

Take ordinary chemicals (solvents, cleaners, etc) and put them in the household section of the store, and charge X. Slap a new label on them, put a picture of a car on them and put them on the auto-products shelves, and charge 2X.

I wouldn't put crankcase flush in my engine either. It's made for motor oil. If it is so sludged up it needs drastic action, then take it apart and clean and rebuild it properly.

Matt

For a sludged engine you can also just change the oil and put in a good synthetic like Mobil 1. If you're not in a hurry, it will eventually (over the course of a couple of change intervals) do a decent job of removing heavy sludge and varnish. I agree that using a solvent additive to the oil is not a good idea in most cases.

Cheers,

Or just use synthetic all the time and not have the problem to start with! :-)

Matt

Actually, for a sludged (high mileage) engine, it could be a mistake to suddenly put in either synthetic or a flush full strength - both can loosen stuff up way too fast and overload the lube system - I've seen it happen with synthetic oil too (if you're lucky, sll you will get is a little temporary lifter clatter due to clogged lifter ports - assuming hydraulic lifters).

For anyone wanting to change over to a full synthetic on a high mileage engine, I would *strongly* recommend a gradual change either by a mixture of synth and non-synth (say, 1 to 4) or 4 to 8 ounces of something like Marvel Mystery Oil. Then gradually switch over to full synth.

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

I've heard of this, but never seen it first-hand. Always pretty much assumed it was an urban legend. The highest mileage engine I ever converted to synthetic only had 50,000 miles with good maintenance so it likely didn't have much sludge by then. Do you know if any studies on this? Does typical synthetic oil (I use Mobil 1 and have for 20+ years) really have that much solvent capability?

I would never put something mysterious in my engine! :-)

Matt

No studies that I know of, but I personally experienced it on a EA82 Subaru engine, and helped many people on a couple of Subaru forums figure out why their lifters suddenly started clattering after switching over to synthetic at high mileage (typically anything over 80 or 130k miles, depending on oil change history, etc., would be at risk for a sudden switch to synth IMO).

Subarus (at least of that engine) have very temperamental hydraulic lifters (lash-adjusters in Subrua-ese), so it may not be as much of a problem in other makes. But I will say it is definitely a phenomoenon with the EA82 Subaru engine. It is likely that other engines are more tolerant of a considerable amount of trash being released over a short period of time. Anyway - I cleared the problem up by switching back to non-synth and running a few ounces of MMO in the crankcase for a few months. Others would be more invasive and take the lifters and pressure relief valves in the heads out and take them apart and clean them. I preferred the non-invasive approach and several others had success with it as well.

I sold that car last year with 275k miles on the original engine and turbocharger running as good as ever.

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

I agree. I have a '95 Neon with lots of lifter clatter for the first couple of minutes each morning. Thing sounds like a diesel. Started right after I switched to Mobil 1 at about 30,000 miles. Bad lifter design with VERY small ports (the lfters are in the ends of the rocker arms and are no larger than the end of my pinky finger). One of these days I'll take the top end apart, repair the slightly leaky head gasket (1 quart every 5,000 miles) and clean up the lifters. Hopefully I'm not mushrooming the valve stems....

Jeff '95 Neon. 143,000 miles and counting.

Could also be bad oil filters that don't have a good anti-drainback valve.

Matt

Very unlikely you had enough sludge at 30,000 miles to cause a problem ... unless that was your first oil change. :-)

Matt