Another car, another problem

Jim Warren wrote:


Jim
What you describe is typical of the MG as well, I would have a look at voltage drop then. (Wiring on older cars can deteriorate especially BMC products.)
Pull the wires off the regulator and fuse box then put them back on, could be a dirty connection there. Not sure if they are screw connectors or spade, which ever, clean them up.
The generator goes to the regulator then the ign switch. In other words its not direct power to start the car.
Basically you have a wire that goes from the solenoid to the ign switch (white /red trace) then a white wire goes from the ign switch to the fuse, but not through the fuse itself, then on to the coil and distributor. Basically all the white wires joined together go through the ign switch, this is your power to feed the coil.
You can also bridge both the fuses and start the car from the solenoid without the key being turned on. This will give you ignition power. This will check for voltage drop through the ignition switch.
r
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Warren says...

I had this on my Capri with a Weber 32/36 DGAS carburettor. Turned out the carburettor was worn. There's a tube in the middle of each choke. Fuel passes from the float chamber into this tube and is then dispersed into the barrel. What had happened is this tube had become loose so the fuel was just dribbling down the side of the barrel instead of going into the tube. Upshot was that it'd start when cold when the choke came on but not when it was hot. Once it had started, it seemed to run OK.
Same symptoms as you seem to be experiencing. Yeah I know its a completely different carb but its worth a look.
As an aside, there's a dodgy batch of rotor arms doing the rounds. My dad went through three, even buying a new dizzy as he thought it was that, before he got one that worked OK. Basically what was happening was that the metal strip which acts as a kind of spring retainer wasn't doing the job so it wobbled about after a while. The first replacement came from near Northampton, the second from Driffield and the third was mail order from the owners club - all with the same fault.
--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Conor wrote:

Yes, worth a look. I did just once try pulling out the choke when it wouldn't start, and it made no difference, though.

I tried buying a rotor arm from Wares while I was buying the coil. Out of stock, waiting for more to come in. I can't see anything wrong with the one currently fitted though, and once the engine starts it runs OK.
I will have to hunt around in the back of the garage. Somewhere around I should have a scrap dizzy with the bearings gone from a Dolomite, but the rotor arm should be OK if it is still on it. Better a known old one than a doubtful new one, provided they are the same size. At least it will eliminate one option.
Jim
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

A hairdrier on the coil might show up a heat related thingie.
However, I'd be inclined to check carefully all the work done. If you have a spare condenser try that too - they can be intermittent.
--
*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Hi My guess would be the coil but I am reminded of a similar problem on a Moggie 1000. You set the points correctly but due to wear in the distributor spindle the points gap was erratic. Check the gap in several positions and check the gap when it will not start. It's a long shot but it had me going round in circles. Being pretty tight I averaged the gap in several positions - not for people who are fussy!
Alan
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Roberts wrote:

The car now has a brand new coil, and it hasn't made any difference at all. It is about to get a new set of HT leads, because the ones fitted are too long and wind round each other to use up the slack. So thanks for the distributor wear idea - I can certainly check that out.
The trouble with buying a car you are not familiar with is that it is almost impossible to tell what has been altered unless you can compare it with a known unaltered one. So for some information I am relying on other owners to advise me. And the other thing I wondered was whether there should be something between the exhaust manifold and the carb to protect it from the heat? All the diagrams in the workshop manual start with the assumption that the carb is off the car, so I can't see what the installed state looks like. It just seems to be very close to something very hot, and I wondered if that might affect hot starting. When the engine is running, there will be a cooling draught from the fan over the carb, but there is scope for a vapour lock once the engine stops running. Also, how does air get into the petrol tank to replace the petrol pumped to the carb? Is there a vent pipe, or does air go in around the petrol cap. I ask because it has a replacement cap, and I can't see any vent in it.
Jim
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hi Jim
Jim Warren wrote:

I've been watching this thread with interest - had one or two cars/bikes both ancient and modern that had similar problems.
Here's a thought - run the car until she's warm. Stop, try to re-start - if the fault occurs, try whipping the filler cap off the fuel tank.... If she starts & runs then that's your problem - need a new filler cap..
I had a Golf once that had a similar fault - turned out to be a blocked vent in the filler cap - and the pump couldn't suck petrol through against the vacuum in the tank. Leave it for half a hour and the air found its way back in again and all was well... until the next time...
Nothing to do with the engine heating up - more to do with 'using up petrol' from the tank...
Just had a look at the filler cap on my '64 Traveller (looks like the original cap) and it does have a venting arrnagement biult into the cap. There are two small holes 'inside' the sealing ring - which seem to vent to another larger hole 'outside' the sealing ring. If your replacement cap doesn't have vents then this could be the answer....
Now if somebody could just tell me where the rattle's coming from 'somewhere in the region of the steering column' then I'd be a very happy bunny !<g>
Good luck Adrian
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That will either be the bushes in the steering column.
The rack needs adjustment on the pinion.
The bush at the other end needs replacing.
r
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
HI Rob
Rob. wrote:

Thanks for the reply...
I have a set of the felt bushes for the steering column - guess that's the first / easiest thing to try.....
Now where did I put that box of 'round tuits' <g>
Thanks Adrian
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Adrian wrote:

I could most likely sent you some.
Its taken me over 6 months to pull the motor on the MG, just to lubricate the spigot bush in the flywheel, couldn't drive the thing as it would not allow the gearbox input shaft to disengage, hence couldn't change gear.
That's bloody modern mechanics for you, didn't use any lubricant on the spigot after a gearbox rebuild. (Modern cars usually have a ball bearings in the flywheel.) Fully trained on VW Audi Landrover Volvo Jaguar, but lost the basics.
So I now have a spare tuit.
r
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hi Rob
Rob. wrote:

I had a box-full... but now I can't remember where I put them <g>
Thanks for the offer - anyway....
Trouble with the Traveller is it's now our only car - so somewhat disinclined to do anything that might result in her being off the road.
It's the tourist season out here (such as it is since the suspension of the Swansea-Cork ferry service - www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com) and so I'm out & about at the open-air markets every weekend, and a couple of big week-long exhibitions coming up also - any 'serious' maintenance jobs will have to wait until September - by which time I'll have mislaid that box of tuits again <g>
What fun!
Adrian - West Cork, Ireland
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Rob. wrote:

You might find simple lubrication insufficient. The old style (1950-60s) spigot bearings were supposed to be left immersed in oil for 24 hours before fitting, because they were slightly porous and absorbed enough oil over that period of time for them to be lubricated for life - or at least for the life of the clutch when the bearing could be renewed as a matter of course at the same time.
I don't know if the modern ones are made of the same stuff, but if they are, just squirting oil on it won't be enough and it will eventually grip the input shaft again.
Jim
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jim Warren wrote:

It was actually replaced about 6 years a go and lubed up then, when the engine was rebuilt. (They are or were sintered bronze, as in the rear of the Lucas generators.)
What happened to the gearbox was the input shaft and cluster knocked teeth off, so I replaced the parts plus installed better parts of an old box as well, went through the overdrive did modifications so it worked better.
Now my son helped assemble and replace the engine/gearbox as a unit. Hence the problem forgetting the grease on both the spline and the spigot.(new input shaft)
Hint - with the sintered bronze bushes, especially in the generators, before assembly you can pressure oil them. (soaking takes too long unless you have spares lying around)
Place the bush on your thumb, fill with oil, place your index finger on top and squeeze. This forces the oil through the bush, you can visually see it come through. Job done.
r
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Rob wrote:

Thanks for the tip. Saved in case needed.
Jim
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jim Warren wrote:

Not as far as I can see from the pictures in Ray Newell's excellent "Original Morris Minor" book, but those were the days when petrol was proper petrol, not the present benzene-ring rubbish we now get. Midgets certainly had a heat shield.

Yup.
The same book shows a saloon with its petrol cap hanging on its chain, and it clearly has two vent holes on the inside. I've only once come across a car which was trying to evacuate its tank, and there was a distinct "whoosh" when I opened the filler cap. Certainly worth checking, though I'd have expected it to show some signs of petrol starvation before its failure to re-start.
--
Kevin Poole
****Use current date to reply (e.g. snipped-for-privacy@mainbeam.co.uk)****
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It's usually possible to cut them - prise open the terminal, remove and remove the 'hook' that goes down the middle. Cut to length, insert the hook and carefully crimp back the connector.
--
*How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost? *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Thanks for the thought, but I had already fitted the replacements by the time I read this.
Jim
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Depends on the type. Some used to have screw-in connectors which were a doddle to change. Unscrew, cut lead, screw back.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Steve Firth wrote:

Weren't they the leads with the copper wire core? I've not seen any of that type for years.
Jim
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes, those were the ones.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.