Most undeserving / overrated classic?

Overrated: Most Jaguars, esp Jaguar E-Types, esp later ones. But I would also say that the FHCs and 2+2s are underrated.

Underrated: Those lovely Renault Dauphines. Generally, a lot of French cars.

I've come to see French cars in a very different light as I've got older. I used to dismiss them until I realised that there are philosphical differences between 'Anglo Saxon' motoring and 'Gallic' motoring, and that the French have been very courageous in their design and attitude towards cars.

On a slightly different tangent, what IS a classic? Is ANYTHING over a certain age a classic?

It's a great shame that they didn't stick to the Mustang V8 that the two prototypes had. Lighter than the Essex, and much nicer by all accounts. I've spoken to someone who's driven the surviving pre- production V8 Scimitar and apparently it;s a delight.

Well, unless there's a lot of weight been added behind the front axle line replacing the Essex with a Rover V8 will have upset the weight distribution no end, and with a full tank that could make life

- interesting at times. Suspension and damper rates are going to be all wrong too, which will all show up under hard braking.

That said, the brakes are nobbut adequate for modern conditions at the best of times, though I dare say they were good enough in their time. Something else to get upgraded one day..

Just imagine it, a DS with _mechanical_ fuel injection - like maybe the Lucas or the Spica 8-) Now that really would give "garage queen" a new meaning.

Andy Dingley ( snipped-for-privacy@codesmiths.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Odd, though, that Bosch went from electronics with the D-jetronic (as in the DS) to mechanical for the K-jet, then back to electronics for the L-jet.

Still, they all worked, which is more than can be said for some...!

Nothing with a BL badge could ever seriously be considered a classic.

Bollocks. Loads of excellent cars ended up wearing the BL badge.

Metro 6R4 ?

-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

In news: snipped-for-privacy@news.teranews.com, The Blue Max decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Nah, the RS200 was a great car, just killed before they finished developing it.

I'm not a fan of the Scimitar though, although I know a bloke with a 4.6 Range Rover engined one, and that's a great car.

Nah, when I was a kid my dad had many E-types (early 70's, owned a garage), and I still get a warm feeling when I see one. They don't drive *that* badly either, brakes are iffy, but otherwise they're ok.

Undeserving classics? Ooh.. there's thousands.

Triumph 2500PI, any Alvis, anything painted Harvest Gold, anything old and Japanese with more than two wheels (except the Toyota 2000GT), Fiat 130 Saloons, Lancia Beta (although I have a sneaky urge for a HPE Volumex), Morris Minor, Vauxhalls, Non-Sprint Triumph Dolomites, TR6 and 7 (although I kinda like them too), Citroen GS ( I just hate the idea of an aircooled engine in something that was otherwise so good), non V8 Rovers..

I could go on, but once I start.

"Dave Plowman" wrote

I doubt that - the Ford V6 did fine in Fords, but put one in a Scimitar and suddenly it stops working properly. Fitting a Metro battery to it didn't help. I don't think any engine could rescue a Scimitar athough a Rover V8 might be a good place to start.

Allegro Imp Viva, oh soddit, all Vauxhalls Sunbeam, absolutely anything with the Sunbeam badge. Bond Bug Morgans, every last one of them Triumphs, possible exception for the GT6 Humber Super Snipe Gordon-Keeble Jensen most Aston-Martins, especially all of the Lagondas Every Ferrari ever made Every Lanmborghini ever made All Alfas All Fiats Any Mini The Morris bloody shitheap Minor (esp. Traveller[1]) All MGs Any BMW Anything with a Matra badge but especially the Rancho.

[1] One of the few cars that could suffer rust and woodrowm simultaneously.

"ANDREW ROBERT BREEN" wrote

So, Andy, you need to upgrade the engine, the brakes, the electrical, and the paint. Fess up, man - you need to upgrade the *car*!!!

I like them. They're fabulous looking. It's just that everyone I personally know who's driven or owned one reckons they're apain to keep on the road, both financially and literally. Ergo, they may be good, but they aren't as good as we've been led to believe.

The XJS on the other hand....

"michael calwell" wrote

Anything with an owners club that has more than one member. This includes the Ford Orion.

You don't really like classics, do you? :-)

May not rust but they do delaminate though.

Ford Cosworth anything.

All 4wd cars. Anything with 4 doors. Anything over 1.3m tall. Anything where the height from top of bonnet to top of wheel arch in line with the hub center is over 15cm.

-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

...is a much better car. Not only classic, gorgeous styling but, unlike the e-type, it can be used as an everyday car for commuting or whatever. I'm sure it will soon be recognised as a true classic, and not before time.

Regards George

E types are pretty awful to drive on short journeys the heavy engine up front and tight set LSD make it non user friendly as a shopping car especially on the non V12models without the PAS. The Mk2 Jag is also very overated compared to other Jags such as the S type/420 and the pre 73 XJs. As for Reliant the Scimitar had a classic shape and a very well engineered chassis but it also had that awful Ford V6 and the finish and fit of the GPR panels was very poor compared to what even Lotus were building at the time. Elsewhere in this thread someone suggested a Tr4 was a classic and an MGB not -- True the Tr4 and Tr4A had a lustier engine and comparisions look fine in classic magazine pages but but try living with a TR espeically an irs model the rattles from every corner of the body chassis and drive train make even short journeys a chore, in contrast even a well worn and more than slightly rusty chrome bumper B will feel rock solid if gutless. Of course neither can hold a candle lookswise to the oh so pretty, sweet handling Alpine that rusted even quicker than the Triumph.

With old cars too many people buy the rose tinted specticales that come free with classic car mags I can't understand why anyone would consider a Morris Minor, A35, A60 or similar a classic they were awful to drive when they were new and are still awful today, lets keep the good ones but let the basket cases die off gracefully. Somewhere I distantly remember reading about a guy who had collected about

60 or so Rootes Humbers. I have owned and driven dozens of Humbers from an ioe 9/20 of the 1920s through the side valve cars to a 67 Hawk and the very last car to bear the once proud Humber name the Arrow range Sceptre Estate, I respected them all but can't imagine anyone driving a 1954 sidevalve 7 seater Imperial for enjoyment, while its side valve Commer van mechanical bits were so artless that openning the bonnet would be a depressing experience.

As for my nomination for the most overated and overated classic Overated either the E type or the Lambo P400 Muira, Underated either the MG TD/TF or the Gordon Keeble

You speak the truth if anything an understatement :-)