Most undeserving / overrated classic?

I do have a strange desire to drive a 1750 'Equipe', mind.

I somehow thought you'd come out with something like that!

Exactly. I have 2 cars in my .sig that I'd consider 'modern classics' - the 75 and the 33. Both of these are likely to be considered old bangers by most people, though. The Golf, however, is recognised as a 'classic' whereas to me it's just an old Golf.

Hardly revered.

Proof that the british can design a good car, even if they can't built it.

Viva GT (2.0 OHC)? Firenza HPC? Chevette HSR? VX4/90s? PA Cresta (come on - you can't deny the PA Cresta is a beautiful car).

I want one of those. I've got model ones all over the house.

But then, I want a Tagora, too.

Richard

consumption,

The Mk1 Cortina at least in 1500 form was pretty good afor 1962 although just an extension of the Anglia and Classic designs the Cortina together with the Fiat 124 it pretty well wrote the book on mass market rwd sallon car design for years to come. The Consul was also pretty good for a cheap largish car and the column change was pretty well standard fitting for all non-sporting saloon cars of the era, the MkII was after all just a face lift on a 1949 design.

Just consider what BMC were selling against Ford at the time, with the Farina range BMC actually took a step backwards from the well designed ZB Magnnete.

What you both say is true, the Scimitar chassic could have a taken much better engines -- and while the little Reliant engine was a a gem it was usually found in a depressingly bad vehicle..

It was an awful engine in Fords, truly at its worst in the Mk4 Zodiac, however it did improve a bit over the years.

michael calwell realised it was Sat,

A classic is in the eye of the beholder. There are as many criteria for something being a classic as there are beholders.

Just about every car in a 1966 edition of "Noddies Book of Cars"

By the way most Imp owners would be extremely offended by having an Imp called a classic they regard them as something to muck about with patch up and generally have FUN with.

Are there any 30-year-old cars (36-year-old designs) where this isn't the case? For regular transport in modern conditions even quite ordinaary modern commodity cars win out. If you drive a classic it's because you accept its faults and limitations in return for its virtues (the lightness and sharpness of response that you don't get when everything has been NVH'd the death and power-everything gets between you and what's happening at the tread of the tyre) and that indefinable character that a good, old, car can have. The Scimitar must have been a regular marvel in 1967 - it's testament to how good it was that it's still usable as an everyday car today, provided one accepts its limitations. The brakes, like I said, ain't wonderful - but there's more there to stop you than some much later cars (Rover SD1, for one). These things are on the 'to do eventually' list, but paint apart there's no urgency. Some time in the next 10 years or so, maybe. The engine - one is stuck with. At least the car is so light that it never need rev much over 3000, and within those limits the Essex is bearable. I'd hate to have a heavier car with one in it though. Even in the Capri Mk2 I remember it having to work much harder and so being so much nastier (as was the rest of the car, but that goes without saying).

What I guess I mean is that classics will inevitably fall down in some aspects by comparison with new cars (reliability being one of the main areas, of course) - 30+ years passing makes that inevitable. We all indulge in a certain amount of willful blindness about this.

Sounds like you bought a bad one. Trouble with Scimitars is (a) new, they were expensive cars (b) now, they're undervalued and cheap (c) people buy them cheap and expect them to have the running costs of a cheap car The result is endless trouble for anyone who buys them next. Because a car is conceptually simple doesn't make it cheap to maintain (ask anyone who's bought a cheap Bristol...). Like all formerly-expensive cars the only rule is to buy the best you can find, with as much history as possible - and then accept that you'll have to pay to keep it good. And that you'll never get your money back because there's a kind of asypmtotic limit to prices. This of course, is the universal problem of undervalued classics - OTOH it means that good ones are affordable (and with enough over to keep them going).

It is recognised as a true classic by Jaguar enthusiasts. An XJS retains its value much better than any of the saloons. I consider the 6.0 V12 fixed head coupes and the later facelift 4.0s to be the best of the bunch. Although the V12 is *the* engine to have for many, it's probably a case of an engine too far for the XJS. It really isn't at home there and whereas it give turbine-like performance it is showhorned in so tight that inevitably there are problems.

The 4.0 AJ16 OTOH fits the car like a hand fits a well tailored glove. The power delivery is just right and overtaking can be done "briskly" by changing to 2nd using the J-gate.

It's odd that the nicer version have the lowest prices, but that's all to the good for collectors.

The 75 is hardly a classic it's an Alfetta/Giulietta spoiled by marketing men. The 33 has to be *the* nastiest car I've ever driven, I really can't find anything good to say about them. The nadir of Alfa-Romeo development, possibly a step below the hideous and ill-fated Arna.

Tempting, given I'm down that way in the spring. But seriously, no. One car and one boat, both needing some TLC, are enough..

"ANDREW ROBERT BREEN" wrote

Very likely. I had one that broke down almost literally every time I used it, usually dangerously, and I'd paid top, top money from Graham Walker.

Part of me wanted to take the whole thing to bits and reassemble it properly, notably the electricals. In theory it could be fun car. Then have someone like Vegantune sort the engine. But part of me thought, Naaaah...because even after I do that it'll still sound rattly and look rough, and I'm not paying to have a GRP bodyshell resprayed.

SteveH was seen penning the following ode to ... whatever:

... still with a broken carb?

True. I'd love to try it in another car, but at only 40bhp it really can't deal with anything big, sweet though it is. I wonder if it would fit in a 2CV, though ...

Ian

I'd love to know ow they planned to fit a flat six in, bearing in mind how cramped the straight four is at the sides..

Indeed. Just the supply pipes. And the return pipes. And the height adjusters. And the height adjuster control rods. And the brake-bias adjuster mechanism. And, of course, you need the pump, regulator, accumulator, reservoir.

No, sorry. I still think it would be better to rip out all of that and put in springs. Sure, it would lose something in ride, but overall it would be a better car for it.

Indeed. That's why I made sure that I got one with a carburettor ...

Ian (South African 1976 DS23 Pallas)

Not a great XJS admirer - mainly because I'm not fond of the looks but also because it occupies an awful lot of road for the interior volume, even for its type of car. A joy to driver I'm sure, if you get a good one, but not somthing to tempt me. The Lynx Eventer conversion, however, could tempt me to make a really stupid decision ;)

Sounds like you had plain bad luck with it then, which is always a risk with an old car (any old car), and more of a risk the more expensive they were when new.

I can sympathise with your feelings about getting a GRP shell resprayed. There's a big *ouch* factor there. Going to get it done, because I like the old beast, but I'm looking around at the moment (there's a bit of me wonders whether a boatyard could do it - there's a big business in epoxy-painting GRP yachts as there are enough old ones around to need that kind of attention, and if they could get a good enough surface finish..).

Fuel pump.

I've checked everything to do with ignition and the carb, and can find nothing wrong - but started with this as the Pierburg carb has a bad reputation.

It was only when I pumped the throttle with the fuel pipe disconnected that I realised that there should be a little more than a trickle coming out of it......