Help: 1996 Cirrus, 2.5L still working on erratic problem

1996 Chrysler Cirrus Lx, 2.5L V6, Automatic, 58K miles; OBD-I

I finally got time to trouble shoot this problem: stumbles and stalls after cold start; intermittently stalls when coming to a stop; rarely sets a code; a couple of times it set one or more of the following codes: 12, 13, 22, and 44

So far I tested for bad sensor ground by disconnecting the MAP connector and continuity testing pin 2 (BLK / LT BLU) and ground and wiggle test various parts of wiring harness: no effect. Ground seemed good.

I would like to try disconnecting the TTC solenoid, but can't locate it. Is there one in the "JA" body style?

Glen, maxpower: how should I precede from here?

TIA (and for helping me before). Bill

> > > > 1995 Chrysler Cirrus Lx, 2.5L, Automatic > > > > The Haynes manual says it is ODBII. The diagnostic connector is definitely > > OBDII type. But my scanner (Sony Clie with OBDII interface from Harrison > R&D > > (Houston)) does not scan the PCM (works fine on ort her cars 1996 and up). > Nor > > does the Actron scanner at Autozone scan it. > > > > That's one issue. > > > > The main issue is that the car will unexpectedly chuggle and quit, usually > when > > pulling up to a stop. Then it starts right back up. This happened a couple > of > > times a day and never left a PCM code. Finally two days ago if set a code: > > > > 13 - MAP sensor voltage slow or no change from idle to run. > > > > Ha hah, I thought I had found the problem, but no. > > > > That code cleared on the next start up. > > > > Then last night another start (cold), chuggle, stall with codes: > > > > 44 - battery temp sensor voltage, and > > 22- engine coolant temp sensor voltage too low or high > > > > Is it plausible that there might be a wiring harness problem that > logically > > ties all these things together? or is the PCM going bonkers? > > > > Any ideas? > > > > TIA > > Bill > > The software wont work on that scan tool because OBD2 wasn't available until > 1996. The coolant temp sensor and MAP sensor share the same 5 volt and > ground circuit. Since the one fault code is voltage high I would start > looking for a bad ground or a broken wire. do a wiggle test on the wire > harness to see if you can make the engine stumble. Pay attention to the > black/blue wires on the sensors, that is the ground circuit. > > Glenn Beasley > Chrysler Tech > >
Reply to
Bill
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Without having a scan tool it is going to be hard to say what it is. When a fault code is set you need to see what the sensor values are. Plus it would help to see if all the codes were set at the same time or at different start/run times.The scan tool would give that info about when each code was set. If they all set at the same time, normally you would look for an electrical problem. The trans solenoid pack mounted on the trans just in front of the radiator fan is what you are referring too I believe, but I wouldn't mess with that. Sorry not much help.

Glenn Beasley 'Chrysler Tech

Reply to
maxpower

You have been more help than you know. I am almost certain at his point that it is a sensor ground slice somewhere in the wiring harness. The codes that appeared together were: 13, 14, 22, and 44. Since squeezing the harness in several places trying to uncover the problem, I somehow fixed it. I just drove all over town trying to get the problem to resurface. and it didn't.

If the problem doesn't come back by Friday (2 more days of stop/go driving) I might have to proceed with re-wiring the sensor grounds directly from the PCM to the (12,14,22,44) sensor devices.

I wish I know just exactly where that ground splice was in the harness. I would cut it open and inspect it.

I would like to have an OBD I scanner. Can you recommend one?

Thanks aga>

Reply to
Bill

Pay close attention to the bundle of wires that are at the throttle body, just where they come off the throttle position sensor and go under the intake. Engine coolant temp sensor and map sensor share the same ground at pin 43 connector 1.Also the trans control module and battery temp sensor share the same ground in pin 43 connector 1 along with the downstream 02 sensor and vehicle speed sensor. You may just be having a bad connection at the PCM or possibly a bad PCM. Take a good look at the pin in the connector

1 ( pin 43) even if you have to take the connector apart. good luck..... I'm headed for the hot tub!!!

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

Reply to
maxpower

Ok. wires from TPS to break out of main harness look good. So do ECT to break out of harness. BUT...

I took apart one PCM connector (housing pins 41-80) and tested the tightness of the cable ends using a male pin from a DB9 connector (used in PC's) and pin 43 was kind of sloppy, BUT pin 46 (fused B+) was really bad with no detectable grab on the male test pin.

(I believe that the DB9 male pin is very close in diameter if not the same as the PCM male pins. But I can't be certain).

I have to tighten up the female cable ends so that have good contact. Is there a trick to do this?

here are some pictures:

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Bill

Reply to
Bill

No we just replace them when they are new

Reply to
maxpower

Update:

I cleaned the female pins on the PCM connector, then added a small amount of dielectric grease to each one of the male pins. Put it back together and plugged in the PCM. No other changes were made anywhere under the hood.

  1. Start the car, starts right up. idles good (around 750 RPMS). Put it in gear for the first time, instant stall. Restart it, starts right back up. Put it in gear and drive off. no other problems or codes.

  1. Drove around all day, no problems. Stop car for a few hours. (today was cold and damp, 45 degrees). Start cold car and #1. above repeats.

What next? check the IAC motor?

Reply to
Bill

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