Built like a Mercedes (?)

It is a simple information gathering exercise by a government department. If you think they have a motive for cooking the books or you can point out an inaccuracy to them or me, go ahead. Otherwise accept the figures.

Huw

You are deluded. My figures are officially collected by the US dep of energy or similar agency.

Huw

I stand by the figures I supplied in the appropriate place.

Huw

both the 12 valve and the 24 valve are well known and very respected around here mate, primarily because they work well.

at least thats how we judge stuff here in the us old boy.

You seem to be beyond clueless to the fact that these American full-sized diesel pickups do their job while still getting order-of 15 mpg at gross weights of >15,0000 pounds. They've been common-rail injecte turbocharged for several years now, and before that were typically HEUI types since the early '90s.

The rest of the (its lowercase, by the way) world doesn't do any better than that. .

More blather snipped

I have done exactly that in each case that I've commented upon. Please go back and read.

You are obviously a fantasist.

Huw

now that is a hoot. a person from the uk, complaining about the us, calling that guy from the us a fantasist. huw, just the fact that you are here bitching about the us shows you and pooh butt to be the biggest fantasists in existance today. to believe that you uk guys can even play in the same league as us us guys proves that. i mean, come on. what has the uk done, other than provide a rather basic testing ground for dental hygiene? you wanna bitch about our car industry? what has the uk ever provided? oh yeah, electronics by lucas, the prince of darkness. oh, an triumph, the bike that helped invent the mighty wipe. look, we can't use your industry as a bad example, because you don't have any. so, while i understand you coming on and complaining about the us to take your mind off of the uk, don't lose perspective.

and pooh bear wanting to rip on our military. hey, again, at least we have one. i am sure it won't be long before you see proof of that, since we will probably have to come over and save your sorry asses again.

geezz, come on. your envy is showing huw.

From:

Comparisons

A commuter train carrying 80 passengers requires roughly 710 British thermal units (Btu) of energy per passenger per mile, and a trolley with 55 passengers uses around 1,050 Btu per passenger mile, and a one person car, some 7,380. Public transport also saves valuable city space. Buses and trains carry more people in each vehicle, and if they operate on their own right-of-way (particularly in underground tunnels), can safely run at much higher speeds. An underground metro can carry 70,000 passengers past a certain point in a single lane in one hour, surface rapid rail can carry up to 50,000 people, and a trolley or a bus in a separate lane more than 30,000. A lane of private cars with four occupants, by contrast, can move only about 8,000 people per hour. ["Out of the car, into the future" by Marcia D. Lowe. WW, Nov/Dec 1990]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 11:08:25 -0000, "Huw" wrote:

Also from:

Costs

Few U.S. drivers realize that, including fuel, maintenance, insurance, depreciation, and finance charges on their cars, they pay $34 for every 100 miles of driving. On a yearly basis, it costs the average solo commuter nearly $1,700 just to get to work. By contrast, the average public transport fare is $14 per 100 miles. ["Out of the car, into the future" by Marcia D. Lowe. WW, Nov/Dec 1990] The first step is to bring to light the hidden costs of driving, such as air pollution, municipal services, and road construction and repair. Perhaps least-recognized of these public expenses are items such as police, fire, and ambulance services required for an automobile-centered system. According to an analyses of the salaries and personnel time of the Pasadena Police Department in California, 40 percent of department costs are from accidents, theft, traffic control, and other automobile-related items. Extending this finding to the entire United States suggests that local governments spend at least $60 billion on automobiles. Employer-provided free parking (a tax-free fringe benefit) represents another huge subsidy to drivers, variously estimated to be worth an additional $12 to $50 billion a year. ["Out of the car, into the future" by Marcia D. Lowe. WW, Nov/Dec 1990] The Metro Toronto Board of Trade calculates that traffic congestion costs two billion dollars per year to Ontario businesses. [Ross Snetsinger, portfolio; found in: "Transporting Ourselves to Economic Growth" by Sue Zielinski: facts.html at

The United States spends nearly $200 million per day building and rebuilding roads [Paving Moratorium; found in: "Transporting Ourselves to Economic Growth" by Sue Zielinski: facts.html at The Ontario Ministry of Transportation has estimated that the societal costs of automobile accidents causing injury and death exceed $1.9 billion per year, including health costs, policing, repairs, lost wages, and other impacts. This is equivalent to roughly $380 per taxpayer per year. [Udo Stillich, p. 11; found in: "Transporting Ourselves to Economic Growth" by Sue Zielinski: facts.html at

Also from:

Energy

The energy equivalent of 575,000 barrels of oil a day are required to produce 10 million cars in the U.S. . [Greenpeace International (1991) found in: "The Recycling of Automobiles: A Study of the Scope of the "by Mike Carriere / file industry sectors automotive] DOT (Department of Transportation [U.S.]) says the average one-way commute is about 10 miles. To accomplish this flat, a 3000- pound car with a single occupant uses about 65,000 BTUs of energy. It would be roughly 3,5 times more energy-efficient to travel in a four-person carpool; 7 times more efficient to go by bus; 35 times more efficient to go by subway; 60 times more efficient to go by train. ["Motion sickness" Friends of the earth. Vol. 21 No. 2 Spring 1991] It has been estimated that between 66 and 105 gigajoules of energy are needed to produce a motor vehicle, depending on the proportion of recycled materials used. This is equivalent to the energy contained in between 2000 and 3000 l of gasoline, or the amount of fuel consumed by

16000 to 26000 km of driving. [A state of the Environment Fact Sheet No. 93-1 "Environmental implications of the automobile" Environment Canada therein: References: Jacques, A. 1992 Canada?s greenhouse gas emissions for 1990. Ottawa: Environment Canada, Conservation and Protection] A comparison of energy use by transportation mode

Transportation mode Fuel electricity use (L/100 km) Number of commuters Energy use (MJ/person-km) Automobile 10

7 1 4 1 4 3.16 0.79 2.21 0.55 Diesel bus 56 40 0.52 Subway 2.61 kWh/km 75 (per car) 0.13

You want more internet info????

From the same source:

Americans collectively drive nearly as much as the rest of the world combined. Not only are they the biggest travelers on the planet, they travel interplanetary distances. In 1990 the U.S. auto and truck fleet will travel two trillion miles, the distance to the planet Pluto and back, 364 times. One - half of all Americans have put two cars in their garage. ["Cars sick automobiles ad nauseam" by Robert Schaeffer in Greenpeace Vol. 15 No. 3 May/ June 1990]

Some representative day trips in North America Selected from : John Cletheroe's USA and Canada Holiday Hints

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Feasible One Day Journeys By Car In The USA And Canada

have had many people ask how far it is possible to travel by car in one day in the USA and Canada. On rural Interstates you can safely assume an average speed of 60mph over a long distance, but on US Highways and state highways it is much more difficult to give a figure since the quality and nature of the roads can vary (although most are excellent). Also, you may wish to stop to look round towns or admire views, and you may encounter the occasional delay due to "construction" (road works). A safe working figure for an average speed on open roads in the west is probably around 50mph, but rather lower through towns, over mountain passes, etc. Due to the greater number of towns overall speeds on normal roads tend to be less in the east than in the west.

Alpine, Texas to Dalhart, Texas (480 miles)

A fascinating ride as the country changes from the mountainous area near Alpine to the flat lands of the Texas panhandle.

Baker, Oregon to Jackson, Wyoming (525 miles)

Via Challis this is a very long trip - about the limit of what is viable in one day. Using the Interstate for the majority of the trip would probably make it much more acceptable in terms of journey time.

Bishop, California to St George, Utah (430 miles)

Via US395 South to Big Pine, over the mountains via a fairly slow back road to US95, south to Las Vegas, then I-15 North to St George. A long trip.

Craig, Colorado to Jackson, Wyoming (340 miles)

A fairly long trip. Rock Springs is a good place to stop for lunch.

Flagstaff, Arizona to Las Vegas, Nevada (246 miles)

An easy trip.

Flagstaff, Arizona to Los Angeles, California (467 miles)

Los Angeles, California to St George, Utah (410 miles)

An easy trip, especially if you start from the east side of Los Angeles. Las Vegas is a convenient place to stop for lunch.

Lordsburg, New Mexico to Tucson, Arizona (200 miles)

A short trip, allowing time to visit both units of Saguaro National Park near Tucson.

Logan, Utah to St George, Utah (383 miles)

A fairly long trip, with some heavy traffic likely on I-15 in the Salt Lake City and Ogden area.

Jackson, Wyoming to Twin Falls, Idaho (305 miles)

A short trip.

Golden, British Columbia to Princeton, British Columbia (250 miles)

An easy trip.

Grand Marais, Minnesota to Minneapolis/St Paul, Minnesota (260 miles)

A fairly easy trip.

Helena, Montana to Jackson, Wyoming (410 miles)

Helena, Montana to Kalispell, Montana (234 miles)

An easy trip.

I see you've decided to clip my numbers without any cause, except to decieve anyone reading your replies.

Here they are again:

WIDE open for an hour, making 2900+hp, a locomotive only burns 170gallons of fuel.

With that kind of power, you can pull 4000 tons (40 rail cars) at 50 MPH no problem. Thats 200,000 ton miles. A truck burning fuel at 5 MPG will go 850 miles on 170 gallons. Hauling 25 tons, thats 21,250 ton miles. If the locomotive is operated properly it'll use less fuel, since it won't be wide open 100% of the time.

Now, unless you can debunk these figures, or have a contradictory source, I suggest you are the one with hot air in lieu of numbers.

Or maybe your "facts" are simply in the loo.

"theguy" wrote

A whole load of infantile rubbish not worth responding to.

Huw

I have the Cummins ISB, which is one generation back. Having noted the better efficiency of diesel fuel over gasoline, I made the decision to buy a higher cost vehicle in order to increase my efficency long term. This fails to mention the benefits of having a viable vehicle long after most have worn out. I get about 22MPG when hauling a load on the trailer at 55MPH. I'll average 19.5 MPG over a long distance trip with speeds of 75MPH and periods of travel in urban traffic.

wrote

I'll respond once only. I have posted the best UK and official US government figures that are available and which are appropriate or links to them. Nothing more to be said really. Three of you are being just plain silly. I can see it makes you feel big and important. Sorry but you are not. You are just your average netkooks and bullies who probably have social problems. Seen it all before.

Huw

Max you have been away from it too long. A passenger loco that drive's the gen set for heat and ac in the coach's 100 gal. per hour and that is high. These loco's are being phased out. A passenger loco with a Cummins donkey to drive the gen about 45 gal per hour. No passenger loco runs wot unless pulling a hill or leaving a station. A frieght loco is much higher in consumption but I doubt reach's 100gal per hour.

Roy

You probably have, at your closest rest area.