95' Windstar, Injector Issues

Hello all,

Buddy brought his van

Reply to
"Doc"
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Reply to
Thomas Moats

Inline..........................

Agreed. The fact that the injector wasn't shorted or open + the noid light results are what led me to my conclusion.

I thought I was clear, sorry. With key OFF, the noid light is always OFF. With key ON (engine NOT running or cranking), the noid light is continuously ON, but very dim. While cranking the engine and/or while the engine is running, noid light is continuously ON (not flashing) and remains dim.

By "processor" I'm assum1) What pin on the computer corresponds to #6 injector ground?

2) Where the hell is the computer?

Thanks so far!

Doc

Reply to
"Doc"

Read this.

"Is it open? Replace processor. Is it closed ( shorted to ground )? Fix the short to ground. That is assuming you are accurate in what you observed with the noid light. Should not take any longer than 5 minuets to verify."

Think about it, if the wire is isolated ( why you disconnect both the processor and injector, the wire is now open at both ends ) and you show continuity you have a short too ground don't you? Why then would you replace the processor? You would not, you would find the short too ground on the wire! If you do not have continuity you have an open circuit, which is exactly what you should have! The processor is now suspect.

The computer is the injector ground. The computer is just a switch to ground. Which is why I said to disconnect the processor and injector. Now the wire between the injector and processor is isolated. You don't need to know the pin locations on the processor. Think about it. With the wire now isolated and you find continuity to ground where is the problem? If you do not have continuity where is the problem? Want to verify the 2nd result? Reconnect the processor harness connector start the engine and check to see if you have a constant OHM reading from the injector plug to ground. If you think about it, that is what you did with the noid light.

Follow the harness. Just like you would with a GM.

Reply to
Thomas Moats

Inline again.........................

A simple "yes, you got it" would have sufficed.

A simple "I don't know what pin it is" would have sufficed.

Don't know the answer to that one either do you? I followed the harness to the firewall on the driver's side. There's a shitload of geography on the other side of the firewall. It would have been helpful to know approximately where it is.

Doc

Reply to
"Doc"

Read your statement, you got it backwards, a "simple yes" would have not sufficed. With the wire isolated you want it OPEN. Open at that point is good! I'll say this again, that is assuming you understood and used the noid light correctly. By your two responses, my doubts now have been confirmed.

I know what the pin number is, again you don't need it. Do not make such a simple problem so difficult.

Yes I know exactly where it is at. You could as well, if you would do about a minuet of real looking. Hell as you said it would be helpful to know approximately where it is, follow the harness.

Reply to
Thomas Moats

you'd best revise your definitions if you want me to believe that 'open' is good

'open' to any competent electrical troubleshooter means 'no continuity end to end'

you are using 'open' to mean 'not shorted to ground', an entirely different thing

really ?

what pin is it ?

tell us where, O Great Oracle

Reply to
TranSurgeon

If the wire between the injector and processor is disconnected, meaning it is NOT attached to any thing, meaning it is now OUT of the circuit, there had better not be any continuity to ground. So open most certainly good.

If you read what I advised him to do, that statement would not come into mind now would it? Wire disconnected from BOTH components stupid. I'll hold your hand a little. Why do you suppose you would do this? So that you can see if there is a short to ground between the injector and processor. Why? Because a short between the injector and processor will give exactly the condition the OP stated. If there is no continuity from that wire to ground when disconnected that is good. No continuity = open. A very normal part of electronic trouble shooting.

Open means just that open, no continuity. Not shorted to ground can be a good circuit, provided it is not open. I had him make a open to test for a short. Common part of diagnosis.

He does not need it. Think about it. Wire disconnected from both components. Put test lead on battery (-) terminal put test lead on injector ground wire. With both components DISCONNECTED it better be open. If it's open and this person really understands how to use a noid light the suspect part is the processor. Because he does not have the equipment to repair the injector driver he does not need the pin location, now does he? Now you may want to argue that maybe he does, well a person that has that equipment will most assuredly know how to use it and have had proper training. He would also not be asking the questions he has been asking. Making statmentns like "I'm a GM hobby mechanic and don't have much experience with Fords." says a lot. Besides that, all the testing he needs to do can be done right at the injector with just a DVOM and a good head on his shoulders. It looks to me like you are in the same boat he is.

Reply to
Thomas Moats

Exactly why I needed the pin number if I was to test for continuity................

I'd sure as hell like to know! I need it to test for continuity, AND if the ground wire is shorted, I'll need it to know which wire to cut from the harness to run a new one.

Kinda hard to get straight answers from this fellow eh?

Doc

Reply to
"Doc"

Test for continuity? You know there is continuity by the fact the niod light lights. You need to find if the wire is shorted. You do not need a pin location for that. Beyond that to check the continuity of a wire is stupid. I can guaranty you will see just what you would expect OHMing out the wire. Which is meaningless even a highly corroded wire with green fuzzes at the terminals will OHM out with in normal ranges. To check for high resistance in the wire you need to watch voltage drops. Beyond that a simple examination of the harness will revile more than a "continuity" test on a piece of wire. If that wire is shorted to ground it will be VERY easy to see.

You don't need it for either reasons. You can find it easier than counting pins, need more hand holding for that?

You got a straight answer. Don't blame me for your short comings.

Reply to
Thomas Moats

wow, I must hit a nerve there

when you have proven that you know what you're talking about, you will be given that opportunity

not until

disconnected

'no continuity', to anyone with an ounce of trouble shooting skill, means that there is an open between one end of a wire and the other

'no continuity to ground' or 'no short to ground' is what you meant

this is rich......a newbie trying to teach me electrical troubleshooting

you're taling out yer butt here

first you say 'open means no continuity', then you claim that he 'made an open to test for a short'

if it's 'open' (no continuity), then he cannot (by definition) 'test for a short', since the open would prevent any possibility of seeing the short, since the meter is now disconnected from part of the wiring (the part that he 'made an open'

what you need is a lesson in how to state your instructions:

1) disconnect wire at both ends 2) hook one lead of ohmmeter to ground 3) hook other lead to wire in question, you should have 'infinite' ohms 4) disconnect lead hooked to block 5) hook one lead to each end of wire in question 6) you should have very close to zero ohms

there

get it ?

looks to like you don't know which pin it is, and are trying to bluff your way out of a hole you dug

your silence is deafening......................

Reply to
TranSurgeon

(double sigh) what aplication ? I'll run out to the shop and look it up (and e-mail it to you, so we can see if Mr. KnowItAll knows)

freakin' impossible

Reply to
TranSurgeon

bull sh*t

don't know, do you Edison ?

Reply to
TranSurgeon

That's correct. Isolating the ground wire from the circuit. If there is even an hint of continuity you have a short. You can even call it a closed or complete circuit. The wire is grounded to something that makes a path to source. He just got his answer fast easy and accurate. There is no debate.

If he needs to have that explicit instructions he should not be doing this, period.

"Think about it, if the wire is isolated ( why you disconnect both the processor and injector, the wire is now open at both ends ) and you show continuity you have a short too ground don't you? Why then would you replace the processor? You would not, you would find the short too ground on the wire! If you do not have continuity you have an open circuit, which is exactly what you should have! The processor is now suspect."

Notice "( why you disconnect both the processor and injector, the wire is now open at both ends )" even you should understand that. If he does not know what to do with the wire at that point he is way over his head. Obiviously by this staqtement, you are as well....."if it's 'open' (no continuity), then he cannot (by definition) 'test for a short', since the open would prevent any possibility of seeing the short, since the meter is now disconnected from part of the wiring (the part that he 'made an open'"

I told him to isolate the wire and test it for a short, I should not have to tell him how. I'm not going to hold his hand or yours. I'm glad I did not tell him to seperate connector # C147F that would have just made things worse.

Not only do I know what pin, I know the color. The color by the way is a clue on how he can find it, but like you that's over his head. I also know where to go to find the pin location, one of the things one needs to know in diagnosing electrical problems. #6 ground wire color is LG/O. #1 is T oh I'm sorry, LG/O would be light green / orange T would be tan. Want to verify that? Go here

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oh I'm sorry again you don't have a login andpassword. That I will not give you. BTW I'm not in a hole. If your as good asyou are implying we would not be having this little pissing contest. You wouldknow you do not need a pin location.

Reply to
Thomas Moats

Really? How will it not be? It's not buried under the car. It does not go to the back of the vehicle. It's right there in the engine compartment, nicely bundled in the harness. Is the harness damaged? That's kind of obvious. Is the harness laying on the hot exhaust manifold? That would be obvious as well. Also, I can bet your next pay check there will be other problems. It should be obvious why a visual check is one of the FIRST parts of diagnosis.

Now lets assume you are saying that using voltqage drops are the best way to test for high resistance is bull shit.

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There are a whole bunch more, gee all saying the same thing! Imagine that. It's better to diagnose an electrical problem using voltage drops! Go ahead, keep using that OHM meter wrong.

I know you don't, I said it, so I do.

Reply to
Thomas Moats

#1 is 75 #2 is 101 #3 is 74 #4 is 100 #5 is 73 Does not matter 3.0 or 3.8 pin locations are the same. Notice I did not give #6, lets see if you can. I can give the color codes as well, but again, you don't need them, if you have a clue.

Reply to
Thomas Moats

I got it G (thanks Bob!). Pin #99, green with orange stripe.

His customers must LOVE his carside manner........................

Doc

Reply to
"Doc"

When's the last time you were under the hood of one of these vans? First, the wiring harness is NOWHERE near either of the exhaust manifolds so that isn't even possible. Second, the goddamn harness is way back in the engine bay, under the cowl and the latter part of it is behind the master cylinder.........................not exactly easy to get at.

Doc

Reply to
"Doc"

no, if I have continuity from one end to the other, I have a GOOD WIRE

your problem is that you use 'continuity' when you mean 'short to ground'

'Continuitiy' means what it says: that the wire is 'continuous' (hence the term 'continuity') from one end to the other

no, you told him to disconnect the wire and 'test for continuity'

only problem here is your misuse of the term 'continuity'

you use it when you should say 'test for a short to ground'

still no pin number, eh ?

want me to go look it up for you ?

and the silence goes on and on...............

Reply to
TranSurgeon

don't try to put words in my mouth

I've found more electrical problems with a Simpson 260 than you'd ever dream of finding

so tell us, Faraday

Reply to
TranSurgeon

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