Whatever, do you see the rear wheels on the volvo spinning? Then I'd
say it was an even test, but fwd vs. awd is no contest.
There you go, top-posted it too.
On Jan 29, 7:44 pm, email@example.com wrote:
I wish I could understand the guy talking. As far as I know Ford doesn't
claim the AWD setup on the Freestyle is for heavy duty off road use.The
Subaru has a better off road AWD system, but I wonder what would happen if
you installed different tires on the Volvo. My Mother has an AWD Freestyle
and if drives really well. We never use if for off road driving more
strenuous that driving down a muddy 1/4 mile long lane, but it handles that
really well. The tires are not particularly aggressive. They are more suited
to highway driving than limited traction situations. I am not sure if the
traction control system would help the off road situation.
The description of the Freestyle system in the Ford Service Manual implies
that in low traction situations, the front to rear power split would be
locked at 50/50 and transmit power to the rear wheels even if the front
wheels were spinning. The Volvo in the movie clip did not seem to work like
this. Are you sure the systems are the same?
I also wonder why the driver seemed to poke up the hill so slowly. I bet I
could drive my Son's 2WD Mustang up that little hill with a more aggressive
driving technique. So I am not sure exactly what they were trying to prove
(again I wish I could understand what the guy was saying). I know I could
have climbed the hill with a 2WD Ranger (with decent AT Tires).
Generally AWD on demand system are intended for use on road. Off road use
vehicles are generally, manually or electrically selectable, 4WD, dual rage,
systems. Try that test with a 4WD F150 crewcab LOL
I dont like that video for two reasons.
1. It wasnt done in English so you have no idea what they are saying..
2. Those tires, and those vehicles are NOT designed for off road use. The
AWD is designed for highway use, and the Volvo uses a viscus clutch in the
transfer case to supply power to the rear wheels. How do we know that it
wasnt malfunctioning, or disengaged?
If that description is accurate, then the Volvo system and the
Freestyle system are not the same. The system in the Freestyle
includes an electro-magnetic clutch along with hydraulics that can
lock the driveshaft if excessive slip is detected. At least from the
description it is like the A4WD System used in the Expeditions and
Explorers, the primary difference being that for the Freestyle the
front wheels are primary (always direct connected), and the rear
wheels are secondary (connected via the electro-magnetic clutch),
while in the Expedition and Explorer, the rear wheels are primary and
the front wheels are secondary.
why is it that no matter what the subject, there will always be some ford
bashing troll that will post some kind of bullscrap like this to try to tick
I mean really. are there that many people in the world that have absolutely
nothing better to do ???
I have a subaru and it is far more capable than that video. People
wonder why Ford is going down. One reason is lying about products and
selling crap. No one can doubt the capability and durability of
Subaru AWD as it has been proven for years.
opinions are like rectal orifices. everyone has at least one.
you think fords are crap. fine. we really don't care though, and will
still buy, drive, and restore old fords.
and as far as the bs about ford going down? I will believe it when they
shutter the doors. a company that holds the market share in truck sales is
definitely not doing as bad as all the naysayers says it is.
Exactly how is Ford lying? The vehicle definitely has all wheel drive. Maybe
it is not as good as the Subaru system, but why does that make it a lie? And
frankly, I'd still like to know what the guy was saying. I don't understand
why they were poking up the hill so slowly? I believe if they had been more
aggressive that the Volvo's passive AWD would have kicked in. I am confident
I could climb that hill with a 2WD vehicle with a little aggressive driving.
At any rate the Ford AWD system is an active system. The Volvo in the movie
was using a passive system. Here is Ford's description of the Freestyle's
"The all wheel drive (AWD) system is driven by the engine through the
transaxle to the power transfer unit (PTU). The PTU transfers engine power
from the transaxle through the driveshaft to the active on-demand coupling
(viscous clutch-type unit). The differential electronic module (DEM) on the
active on-demand coupling regulates how much torque is applied to the rear
axle and halfshafts. The DEM monitors front wheel speed versus rear wheel
speed to determine how much torque (up to 1,000 Nm at the coupler) to apply
to the rear wheels. The DEM uses oil pressure via an oil pump and solenoid
valve to regulate torque through the active on-demand coupling. The
constantly activated, automatic AWD system has no external controls.
"Torque from the engine goes through the transaxle to the power transfer
unit (PTU). Torque is transferred from the driveshaft to the rear axle,
which drives the rear halfshafts.
The vehicle is equipped with an intelligent all wheel drive (AWD) system
that is always active and requires no driver input. The AWD system combines
transparent all-surface operation, and is capable of handling all road
conditions, including street and highway driving as well as winter driving.
The AWD system continuously monitors vehicle conditions and automatically
adjusts the torque distribution between the front and rear wheels. During
normal operation, most of the torque is sent to the front wheels. If wheel
slip between the front and rear wheels is detected, or if the vehicle is
under heavy acceleration (HIGH THROTTLE position), the AWD system increases
torque to the rear wheels to prevent or control wheel slip.
"Differential Electronic Module (DEM) and Active On-Demand Coupling
"The main role of active on-demand coupling and the differential electronic
module (DEM) is to regulate the all wheel drive (AWD) function by
distributing torque between the front and rear axles. The system consists of
a coupling that combines mechanical, hydraulic and electronic sections. The
coupling unit is attached to the rear axle, between the differential gear
and the driveshaft. The mechanical and hydraulic sections are driven by the
driveshaft. Active on-demand coupling (AOC) has the following
- Permanent AWD with electronic control of torque transfer front to rear
- Similar to four wheel drive (4WD) operation
- No driveline wind-up during slow speed maneuvers or parking
"The system is not sensitive to size differences between the 4 road tires
(when driving with a spare wheel, for example). The system is not sensitive
to being towed with one axle raised."
After reading a more detailed description of the Haldex system, the
Freestyle's system does sound as if it is related, but it is not the same as
the passive Volvo system in the vehicle in the little movie. Here is an
explanation of the difference::
"The new electronically controlled all-wheel-drive system [from the S60
AWD] differs from the passive system in the current Cross Country in that
instead of using a viscous coupling to engage drive to the rear wheels, a
computer-controlled multi-plate clutch handles that task. Connected to the
car's Multiplex wiring system, the electronically engaged rear axle works in
tandem with the engine- and brake-control modules. The speed of the vehicle
is taken into account so that rear-wheel drive doesn't intrude when it's not
really needed, such as during parking maneuvers...."
So here what I think -
1) The Volvo in the little movie was using the old passive system. That
system depends on heat generated in the coupling to engage the rear wheels.
The people making the movie deliberately poked along with the Volvo in order
to keep the viscous coupling from heating up and therefore it did not engage
the rear wheel drive. This may have been sneaky/deliberate attempt to make
the Volvo look bad. I don't why they would do this. Maybe they sell Subarus.
If the Volvo had been aggressively driven, I suspect the rear wheel drive
would have kicked in.
2) Ford or Volvo did not lie about anything. If there was any "lying" I'd
tend to suspect the guy making the little movie. It seems he deliberately
operated the Volvo in a silly way in order to make it look bad.
3) The AWD Freestyle does not use the passive type system. It has the active
type system, so the little movie is completely unrelated to an AWD
4) The guy that started this tread need to check facts before calling people
or companies liars.
As a swede (therfore being able to understad what is said in the
movie) I can confirm that the Volvo in the clip is a V70XC, meaning it
is 2002 or earlier and has the old viscous (passive) coupling. Don't
confuse this with the Haldex system used from 2003 (the car was at the
same time renamed to XC70) - the two are like night and day. The
Haldex is used both in Volvo and Ford Freestyle. For more technical
info see the Haldex website: www.haldex-traction.com
There is a long discussion of this movie at
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/06/13/video-volvo-vs-subaru-awd/ . Pretty
far down one guy tells us some actual facts. The net is, as I thought, the
Vovlvo in the movie is the older model with the passive AWD system, not the
current model with the electronically controlled AWD system (the one similar
to the Freestyle's system). The following comments are from the referenced
"This test is for a 2002 V70 XC with a viscous coupler - pre-Haldex (in 2003
the V70 XC changed to the XC70 and changed to
the Haldex system). Haldex AWD is also used on some Audi's and Volkswagen's,
not to mention the Bugatti Veyron. It can
proportion up to 100% torque to either front or rear based on need and it
works incredily well.
Regardless, the viscous coupler should have transferred enough power to the
rear wheels to make at least one of them spin.
Even though this is an old video with out-dated models, something still is
not functioning properly with that Volvo."
In my opinion, the guy running the test deliberate drove slowly so that the
viscous coupling would not engage. This old system required slippage in the
coupling to generate heat that leads to the engagement of the coupling.
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