Let say they offer to sell you the car at $23,000 and you agree to apply
> $4,000 rebate to the sale. Your trade has an NADA wholesale value of
> $10,000. He says I will give you $7,000 which is $3,000 under wholesale.
> He shows you the invoice and says I must have $21,000 to pay for the new
> car and you are only giving me $19,000 in cash and trade. I think you
> will agree it if fair to make a $1,000 profit on a $27,500 car. You go
> home happy because you saved $10,000. The dealership makes a gross
> profit of $9,000. He then makes another $3,000, when he sell you car for
> $13,000. Unless he takes another trade on your car for less than
> wholesale, as well. Too cap it off, he will make another 1% to 2% off the
> finance charges you will pay over four years ;)
And that is why the first thing you should ask the sales person is where is the invoice, then pay 10% or less than that. I haven't paid above or near invoice since 1989. With the kickbacks, MSRP and invoice are sucker plays.
Oh, they will hee and haw, but it is your money you save by preparing to walk.