Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3. but not on a steep grade

Oh?

How do you know?

Liberals are all alike.

Not to be trusted with the security of the US or anywhere else for that matter.

Reply to
Scott in Florida
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"Jeff" wrote in news:sxTyg.6286$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

Probably because SUV drivers gain a false confidence by having 4WD, so they drive more carelessly in bad weather, and die more often in wrecks. They think having 4WD means they're automatically safer. But the 4WD only is operational if they actually have it in 4WD, and they may be travelling too fast to have their vehicle in 4WD mode in the first place. Sure when driving slow in the snow, a 4WD is safer than a FWD car, but at the speeds that most people actually drive, you can't have the 4WD engaged, so the FWD car is easier to control than the rear wheel drive SUV, with its high center of gravity, that is going too fast to be in 4WD mode. Also, SUV drivers tend to be aggressive people, so they drive that way, thus raising their risk of dying behind the wheel. Driving to work, I saw a brand new Ford Explorer weave in and out of traffic wrecklessly, NASCAR style. Well, he flipped, and rolled end over end about 3 times. He crawled out of the wreckage, cell phone in hand. He was probably talking on it, as he was executing the NASCAR Jeff Gordon type driving. Asshole. Deserved what he got. Thankfully, the people he hurt by being the dumbass he is weren't hurt too bad.

Reply to
grappletech

Then why is it that before we got so many SUVs on the road, the US was #1 in highway safety in the world, but now we're around #7?

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

All 4WD vehicles these days will cruise at highway speeds in 4High. There is no such thing as too fast for 4WD anymore.

As well, 4WD offers nothing to benefit driving beyond the ability to go. It does not help stop, it does not help turn, and in fact 4WD can often cause control problems when trying to turn on slippery surfaces. Not problems that are any greater or more of a risk than that of what FWD or RWD would offer - only different. The driver has to be prepared and knowledgable in how to control the vehicle. Most often for those who don't really understand the vehicle under their ass, they experience surprise when a 4WD takes off under them on a slippery curve. Shock even.

I would say that most SUV drivers tend to be women these days.

I would agree that the higher center of gravity of a 4WD vehicle makes it less stable but none of them are simply prone to roll overs for most types of driving conditions. It takes quite an extreme turn to upset one. That said, they will roll faster than a car will. I suspect driver issues as well, as the primary cause of accidents with these vehicles. I really do not know what the crash numbers include so it is hard to argue why the SUV statistics look to be so high. It is far too simplistic to simply say that they experience more fatalities per 100,000 miles without really understanding what is behind the numbers.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

To each his own Chris, but I can only tell you that mileage is not my number one qualifier in car purchase decisions. It's probably down around my third or fourth. That said - I assume the ability to deliver around 30 on the highway as a baseline. Factors more important to me and which I do not think that some of these Toyotas are capable of delivering (Prius, Yaris, Corolla) is the overall safety of the car. These little runabouts may appeal to short trip, urban street, or grocery getter crowd, but I sure would not bet on the ability of these cars to come out on the better end of a collision in the types of driving conditions outside of your typical 30mph residential speed zones. As well, I don't see them as comfortable at all for any trip longer than your average work commute. To own one of these would require owning a second car just for the purpose of accommodating normal driving requirements. Hardly worth the few extra miles per gallon they deliver.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

It's either a troll, or a ultra-conservative, close-minded, self-righteous opinionaited "bush is always right" hate-monger who seems to blame a newspaper for all the ills (while probably listening to Rush (get another hit) Limbaugh on a daily basis.

Either way, I'm thankful for the ability to "killfile" a moron like this who does nothing but disparage others and uses this newsgroup as his own personal soapbox against the NYT... without substantiating anything, we might note.

JP

Reply to
Jon R. Patrick

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Reply to
Bassplayer12

How do either of you know? Neither of you have proved your claims.

Both of you are also forgetting that the Times was very pro-Bush on war policy until well after Iraq was invaded, as exemplified by Judith Miller.

Reply to
rantonrave

With thirty years experience as an automotive design engineer, designing vehicles, and working on crumple zones, you can bet the farm I do. Any fool who does not understand, the large the vehicle in which a properly belted passenger is riding, the safer they are is.......well a fool. One can not defy the laws of physics. Search the Congressional Record, for the facts you seek, WBMA. ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

DUH, the US has 235,000,000 vehicles on more highways than any four counties in the world.

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

The anti SUV invironuts have been playing with statistics for years, in an effort to scare buyers from buying the, larger safer, SUVs they prefer to buy. Wheelbase, vis a v height, has a greater effect on a vehicles ability to roll, when maneuvering, than the center of gravity. The center of gravity of the average SUV is less than two inches higher that the average car. No vehicle is prone to rollover, none. Even if lifted to 45 degrees or more, they have a tendency to fall back on the wheels.

Watch all of the SUVs in movie stunts. Stunt drivers spin them in circles, but they do not roll. To make a vehicle roll the stunt people run one side of the vehicle up a four foot high ramp, hidden behind something, to create the roll. Watch the NASCAR truck races. Even at 150 MPH, lots of spins, but few roll unless the hit something. If the center of gravity was what made a vehicle roll over, one should expect to see six wheeled trucks rolled over daily. LOL

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

In other words, no evidence to back you claim offered, aka, the Mike Hunter usual.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

How can the US have more highways than any four countries in the world? Are you saying the US has more highways the US, Canada, Mexico and Peurto Rico (one of the US colonies)?

I think the safety numbers would be in terms of deaths per 100,000,000 km driven, otherwise, the Vatican City would win, because the only vehicle there is the Popemobile. The number of highway or highway kilometers would not matter.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

(...)

They do get to go faster. Just that they stop at the same speed as cars and SUVs without 4WD.

But, I do agree that a lot of people get a false sense of security from driving SUVs and from 4WD.

I have never heard of 4WD systems where the 4WD kicks off after attaining a higher speed.

I think they would drive just as aggressively in a Ford Escort.

But, a Ford Escort would be less likely to turn over.

That's not NASCAR style. NASCAR and its drivers are very concerned about safety and avoiding crashes. While they seem to weave in and out, considering how fast they are going and the G-forces on them, the driver you are talking about is not driving NASCAR style at all.

No, he was not executying Jeff Gording style driving. Maybe Home Simpson style driving.

Neither he nor anyone else deserved what they got.

Jeff

>
Reply to
Jeff

You have yet to demonstrate that SUVs are safer. Why are there more fatalities per SUV than other types of vehicle?

LOL is correct. The stunt drivers are professionals. Clearly, the SUV drivers on the road are not.

You claim to be a former engineer and except us to compare NASCAR trucks to SUVs? Come on. NASCAR trucks have a much lower center of gravity, and are much closer to the ground than just about any SUV. NASCAR trucks and cars are similar. The only difference is that the truck has a different shape. It is just as low with the same type of suspension as the car.]

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Reply to
Jeff

Well, if anyone got hurt, he certainly deserved it more than the innocent people he endangered with his wreckless driving. The dude was driving recklessly. I witnessed it. He was weaving in and around other cars and was speeding. If anyone got hurt from it, it's best to be him, since he caused it.

Reply to
grappletech

"Mike Hunter" wrote in news:ip-cnamo8qK snipped-for-privacy@ptd.net:

As an engineer, you know that the laws of physics also mean that if a huge SUV hits a small car, the the occupants of the smaller car are in proportionaly more danger than the SUV occupants, which of course you already know. Whereas, if a small car hits another small car, then there is less mass and less energy of motion to be absorbed by the cars and their occupants, but of course smaller cars have less metal for use as crumple zones. Are the odds of people getting hurt by crashing 2 small cars together higher/more than that of 2 larger SUV type vehicles crashing? And obviously, a crash between an SUV and a GEO Metro is unfortunate, and the odds of the Metro driver getting hurt are high.

Reply to
grappletech

Quite likely - with the obvious exception of your typo above.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

Actually, you are wrong there Mike. Subject to eratic turns the SUV is indeed more likely to roll over than a car with a center of gravity several inches lower. BTW - the ctg is more than a two inch difference. Don't argue - just simply go look out your window.

That has got to be one of the most assinine statements I've ever read.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

I'm obviously not referring to the numbers of deaths and injuries but their rates. Why did we go from having the lowest rates to the seventh lowest?

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

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