Detroit's darkest hour

So -- when does this fall off in sales translate to salesmen actually wanting to sell a truck?? Would seem to me that if your sales are in the toilet, you'd do something to generate sales -- but I guess Detroit hasn't figured that out yet.

I'm in the market for a plain jane truck. Went to three Ford dealers yesterday -- same tired old shit -- every truck on the lot is loaded up with junk that I don't want. If I want leather seats, hot and cold running water, and power everything, I'll buy a luxury car. I want an F-150, small V8, auto, AM/FM/CD, pwr steering and brakes, 8-foot bed -- impossible. Of course, if I want a King Ranch diesel Crew Cab with every possible option, goddam if there's not a dozen of them on the lot.

Then there's the sales people -- they won't listen to you -- just keep trying to push you into something that's more and more expensive all the while giving out the "got to talk to the sales manager" bullshit.

Of course, Chevy, GMC, Dodge, Toyota, and Nissan are no different.

On Fri, 04 May 2007 03:15:33 -0700, Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names rearranged some electrons to form:

Then don't buy one off the lot...order one equipped the way you like. Of course, you'll pay more for it.

I don't know where you are, but last year when I was shopping for a pick-up for my farm none of the Ford dealers had any trouble finding a stripped work truck. I just looked at the inventory of the closest Ford dealer and he has many in stock. If you really want a Ford, go to

and build an F-150 like you want and then search the local inventory for a close match. I just input your request into the website and one dealer had over 200 close matches. They had over

100 exact matches. Price before taxes and taxes, but after rebates was less than $17K.

Ed

I know were you are coming from. When I bought a new truck in 2000 even then I had a hard time finding a plain jane truck and it is even harder today. I breifly was looking at some 2006 models from GM that were 10K off sticker to replace mine but nothing out there had what I wanted. Most of all I hate that "push and pray" 4x4 drive select button that has mostly become the defacto standard (for 07 it is now "twist and pray") I suspect I will keep mine for several more years unless they start building real plain jane work P/U's again. I buy them to do work, not to impress anyone or as a daily driver to replace a car and when it is not making money or doing a task that it is truely needed for it is parked and I am driving around in a 4 cyl using less than 1/2 the fuel too.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

Tried that in 04. Went to a Dodge dealer and tried to order a truck. They told me they would not order a 2500 with a regular cab. So I went to a different dealer and they straight out said they would not deal with me. Why? I had the printout from dodge.com with the prices. So I ended up flying to St. Louis and driving my new truck back. In St. Louis I found at one dealer, five trucks. All regular cab, six speed Diesels. Wrote them a check right out of my personal checkbook and drove away. Found the dealer on line, emailed them my requirements and they faxed me the inf. I needed. Selected the truck I wanted, they picked me up from the airport, drove me to the dealership, and I was out of there in about an hour.

It's all in finding the right dealer.

Al

Yet you have no problem slamming Dodge for totally eliminating that which you hate.

You -are- full of contradictions.

Great points, all. Really great post. That's the only industry where it's considered essential to torment your customers. The dealers always believed in business as usual at all costs. I don't understand it either. They're crazy. I won't ever go to a dealership unless it's closed! I'd probably buy a new car every year if they weren't so awful. As it is, I just have too much self-respect, and I never buy any. But remember the dealers aren't really under the control of Ford and GM. Ford may be dying a grisly death, but it's not like they can tell their dealers what to do. The dealers will have to act out of enlightened self-interest. It's not Ford that's insane about that particular issue, it's the dealers.

At my company we treat our customers like gold. We're scared not to.

No I am not, your are! I like MANUALLY controlled transfer cases not servo controlled one or studiply designed 4x4 systems that have no abilty to disconnect front axle differentail (like Dodge) to save a few buck making them and cost consumer a few thousands bucks in extra fuel costs over life of vehicle. If shifting a Tcase manually or maybe even having to engage hubs (like I did for many years) is too much for you then get a 2wd. Given todays fuel market there is no logic excuse to not disconnect front differentail and drive shaft in 2wd. None! It is strictly a profit thing and nothin more. Dodge could have had lockout hubs easily added to the new AAM axle they started using in

2003 on HD pickups but it was cheaper to leave them off and use the bastard hub/bearing design that they use instead and let consumer pay for folly unknowingly. Make no mistake it is costing you MPG and more than you think. I could always tell when my hubs or diff was not disconnected in 2wd because it did not roll/coast as well but on a Dodge it is "normal" to have it drag all the time so you do not know any better other than wonder why your MPG sucks at times.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

Every late model Dodge Ram 4X4 I've seen has a transfer case shift lever. No servo.

Axle disconnects are unreliable and can leave you stranded. They also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. Real lock out hubs might be a good compromise, but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing.

I've never owned anything but manually shifted transfer cases.

Your -opinion-.

Another one of your opinions.

Again, opinion. And as for "unknowingly," you think it's some deep dark secret?

It's not costing me anything.

Funny, my friend just returned from a trip to Colorado in his 04 ram 2500 diesel, pulling a trailer with 4 passengers, he averaged

20 mpg not to mention 30 cents a gallon cheaper for diesel fuel vs. gasoline. Same trip when he had a 2000 Ram 2500 gas 5.9, he'd get at best 11 mpg and be wheezing up the mountains... don't forget, the 2000 had front axle disconnect.

Post something factual, not your usual anti-Dodge/diesel snobbery that is totally based on emotion instead of fact.

As for your "thousands extra in fuel costs," check what the going rate is to repair late model Ford lock outs and get back to me, okay?

Not so, I ordered my 2005 F-450 exactly how I wanted it, and paid $3000.00 UNDER invoice (not MSRP) for it. They (Dealears/salesmen) will take as much as they can get from you.

Having driven 5 4x4 trucks with manual lockout front hubs to over 200,000 miles each, many of those off road using the 4x4, I have never had a hub failure. What are you talking about?

Then I guess that you don't get out much.

Really??? How???

Again, how???

But that doesn't mean that they don't exist. My buddies Ford has a switch on the dash and IIRC, Tom L also has a switch for the 4WD on his DODGE.

I would say the opinion of many.

Then what is the real reason?

It doesn't have to be a deap dark secret for people not to be aware of it.

Is this the best that you can do? You are comparing apples to oranges here. At least if the two trucks had the same engine you could actually be making a point but here....

What does this particular post have to do with diesels?

What makes you think that they are going to fail? How much is a replacement rear axle bearing for a late model Dodge 2500? How much will it cost to repair / replace a transfer case and due to that cost, should we all be driving 2WD's?

You're right. I don't.

Ask the Chevy guys who've had the wax motor fail in cold temps. Or the Dodge/Chevy guys who've had the vacuum switch on the T-case fail. Or the Chevy guys who've had a battery leak and the acid ate up the disconnect pot.

I made two statements there, which one would you like clarified?

Never said otherwise.

I'm happy for both of them.

Could be, but they all haven't chimed in here...

If you wan the real reason, ask the engineer, not some washed up has been lawn mower guy.

If a purchaser is unaware of a particular aspect of the truck they're buying, it's their fault for not doing their homework.

As does Snoman, frequently, which also happens to be who I was responding to.

Friend got the same mpg on his trip as I did with my 97 4X4 CTD pulling my car to Carlisle. Plenty of fault to find with that comparison also.

Not a thing. What do you suppose I meant by "anti-Dodge/diesel?"

Because it's a known pattern failure.

There are no "axle bearings" in a late model Dodge 2500 rear axle assembly.

It costs what it costs.

Not "all" just the ones who can't pony up to the pump. But transfer case wear wasn't one of Snoman's objections, good thing you were here to think of it for him.

Failed lock out hubs.

Well your statement "Real lock out hubs might be a good compromise, but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing." is disingenuous at best...

This really silly one that is based in totally fantasy, "Real lock out hubs might be a good compromise, but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing."

No but everyone who want so seriously talk about fuel mileage, knows enough about reducing rolling resistance to avoid sticking their foot in their mouth on this particular point...

No axel bearings in an axel assembly? Now that is a neat trick...

Actually, he is correct as it is called a wheel bearing in this case with its full floating axles but he knew what I was talking about.

If you say so.

Well, they are a compromise and since I've serviced far more of them than your 5 trucks, hardly a fantasy. The AAM axles without lock outs or a disengagement mechanism are also a compromise, buy I'm not about to discount them based solely on Snojobs say so.

Anyone who is serious about fuel mileage doesn't buy a 3/4 ton truck and expect to get it.

No trick. A Dodge 2500 doesn't have axle bearings, it has wheel bearings. Me thinks you don't know as much about this stuff as you think you do.