GM, Ford reputations take a hit

You never did. I found it on my own.

Wow! You can read minds. You need to take more courses, because you are not doing a good job of it.

The National Traffic Saftey Administration code that requires a VIN for every trailer, car, motorcycle, truck, bus and many off-road vehicles (off-road vehicles now have a different ID system). The fact that there are

27,000 WMI codes would lead one to conclude that there are a lot of manufacturers. With the possibility of of 31,000 WMIs (the letters i, q, u, z and o are not used), they are running out.

formatting link
And on further searching, I found:
formatting link
which includes: 'By international agreement, a WMI is assigned according to region. Initially, the United States had all WMI codes that started with the number 1. '"We were assuming we were always going to be 1, originally," Proefke said. "Now we're 1, 4 and 5. And we don't have that many left of 5."

Gee, it seems there is no room for domestic content.

Well, that is what you said before.

Perhaps you can pass the place on to us. I have looked extensively and have not found it.

The FTC had a few documents about "Made in America" and Honda. They had to do with Lawn Mowers.

formatting link
The FTC did not see a problem with Toyota calling cars built in the USA when they had foreign parts:
formatting link
Around the world, there is a shortage of VINs:
formatting link
There is not document I have found that even suggests that VINs have anything to do with US content. In fact, it may be against trade laws to seperate US and Canadian content (which is why they list domestic content as US + Canada).

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff
Loading thread data ...

Yet in Europe, it is a popular car and quite adequate. That said, I'll have a Fiat waiting for me at the Milan Airport. Not much bigger though.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

or Mexico

XXX

XXX

That ex GM part company that can't make money imports most of their parts they sell to the Big 2.5.

XXXXXX

Toyota is a big parts producer in the USA and also buys many parts from NA companies such as Magna.

Reply to
Just Facts

It was worse than that. Cars before and after WWII, up to the 50s required spark plug cleaning every 2k miles and new points about every 5k miles. Plugs are now much better and oil consumption is very low, much cleaner combustion.. I haven't added oil between changes since the mid 80s and I change oil every 4k mile, twice per year, mainly to remove the acid from our short urban driving in damp weather. Every 1k miles or so the carburetor required a bit of fiddling, if you liked your car to run properly. The exhaust required new rear components every few years, with the SS exhaust systems we haven't had to do any exhaust maintenance since getting our '87 Daytona with SS exhaust. My '95 Concord is setting a record for shocks, the originals are still OK all around. Our previous FWD cars only needed rear shock replacement. Previous to the 80s FWD cars our front shocks needed replacement about every 20 to 30k miles. But disk brakes which are so effective need much more maintenance in the front than those ugly drum brakes.

Reply to
Just Facts

Yes we know that, the Big 2.5 have depended so much on trucks they are now in big trouble. Unfortunately their car selection, particularly from Chrysler is very slim, not enough choice of cars to compete in that category.

As a result Chrysler is into big layoffs, while people like myself don't see a Chrysler model to replace what we have.

formatting link
Chrysler to cut 26,000 jobs> January 29, 2001: 2:35 p.m. ET>

.

How strange of Chrysler to blame the market when they dug themselves a hole by not providing product continuity. I'm sticking with my Concord for now, the longest I've ever kept a car. If for some reason I need a replacement soon it won't be Chrysler because they have no product for me. They did it too themselves.

Today I was in a Toyota dealer which I knew had some connection with my Chrysler dealer. I learned the connection was very close, the same owner who sold his Chrysler dealership last year. Very smart of him, he obviously saw the writing on the wall.

Reply to
Some O

True, but those electronics give superior performance.

The new auto transmissions do need good maintenance and there have been some poor ones, in the haste to keep up with the compedition.

The old 3 spd manual transmissions were tough, but they were very crude, no syncro on 1st., and clutches were a constant maintenance item. Auto transmissions now shift better than most people can manually shift.

Reply to
Just Facts

While cleaning the plugs, you also cleaned element in the oil bath the air filter. Aside from all of that, at 50,000 miles, if you made it that far, chances are it needed a ring and bearing job too. Anyone remember hot to adjust the valves with solid lifters? Replace the seals on the guides because you were burning oil?

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

While I agree with your comments 110%, Ed, I also remember that back in those days, the majority of us did not drive anything like the mileage we do now. If we measured the life of the car in years, they probably lasted as long, or maybe even longer than they do now. But the maintenance of points, plugs, filters was indeed worse.

For us to drive to Dallas was a major trek. Trains and buses were more used then. We or our children may see those days again.

Reply to
<HLS

OH NO!! Does AL Gore know about that!! One of our greatest natural resources: VIN's - wasted :)

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

You mention the oil bath air filters, but you forgot about those canister-type oil filters (before the spin-ons)!

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

No one said the VINs are wasted. I drank a bottle of soda this morning. Now it's gone. But it wasn't wasted.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

The canisters are coming back! Hyundai uses them on the V6. You change it from up top.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Keep searching, you will find it but not in the US code

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

What is your point? GM , Ford and Chrysler buy a lot more parts made in the US than does Toyota or any other import brand for that matter. Toyota buys most of the part from other Japanese companies. Notice from whom Toyota buys all of their steel and tires and most of their parts?

Honda and Nissan do build the Accord as well as Altima and Titan in the US, that is why they have a '1' as the first number of the VIN. Toyota on the other hand have a 4 or 5 and only assembled in the US. READ Toyota ads about what they say are used to assemble their vehicles in the US, 'Imported parts'

. mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Back after WWII the minimum wage was about 35c an hour, gas was 19c. The average annual income was around $3,000 and a new Ford sold for $1,700 and it was the same car that sold for $700 1941 LOL

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Actually, the price of cars had gone down. My first car was about four months pay. I just bought a new car for about four months pay, but got one hell of a lot more car for it. Gas has gone down when I figure how many gallons of gas I could buy for an hour's wage. Life is good.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

It was a joke (notice smiley face). Don't analyze it.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

No thanks. You made this claim that the VINs that begin with '1' have

70-100% US content. Yet some cars that have less than 70% domestic (US + Canadian content), like the Ford Mustang have a '1' as the first digit.

I am not going to find it because I am done looking. Everthing thing I have found is consistant with the US being assigned a VIN of 1, then a 4 and a 5 added later and the first digit of the VIN has nothing to do with content, including news reports quote SAE engineers saying that the 4 and 5 were added later, the US Code that described VINs, discrepencies between nearly identical vehicles built at the same plant that have VINs that start with different first digits, and a *total* lack of credible evidence that your conjecture is true.

Now, if you want to provide documentation that demonstrates otherwise, please do so. You claim that a retired engineer friend said otherwise or told you where to find it doesn't count.

You have said I am free to believe what I want. What I believe, based on your behavior that I have observed here is that you are a smart man, but you are too old and two stubborn to look at the facts, all of which contradict your baseless conjecture that the VINs reflect content.

You may say that I am free to beleive what I want. I am. And my beliefs are based on evidence.

Have a lovely day.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

Toyota buys $28,000,000 worth of parts and sercives in the US. News reports say that Toyota buys around 65% of its are sourced from the US?

Provide evidence, please.

Show us the ads that say, "Imported parts."

The reason why the VIN has nothing to do with US content. '1' is common on US brand cars because '1' wes first assigned to the US. Later, 4 and 5 was assigned to the US. It was after 4 and 5 were assigned to the US that many import brands started building cars in the US. Likewise, Mercury and Lincoln started building SUVs and trucks. So they get a 4 or 5 for a vehicle that is nearly identical to the vehicle sold on the Ford brand on the same assembly line. If the intent was to have content indicated as part of the VIN, the US would probably have been assigned 1, 2 and 3, to make it simpler.

Likewise, cars, like the Ford Mustang, that have lots of parts from Mexico (25% + 8% outside North America) still carry a '1' as it first digit in the VIN. (Mike claims vehicles with more than 70% US content get a '1' while those with between 40 and 70% get a '4').

Here is an article from USA Today that specifically says that 4 and 5 were added after the US started running out of VINs.

formatting link
If Mike or anyone else is able to offer citations that show I am wrong, please do so.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

Get real, You apparently do not understand what you read. How can we possibly 'run out' of VINs? Individual VINs change annual and they vary by manufacture, plant, body, SRS type, engine, model year, check digit, etc as well as the sequential build number up to 999,999 Few of which stays constant yearly LOL

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.