Re: GM, Ford reputations take a hit

get your vehicles right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a Dodge Caliber.................... Different division of DC autos

If their vehicles are getting higher marks with Toyota on the nameplate then what the market wants is the nameplate, you dumb idiot, not the features of the vehicle.

I don't see how you can complete with that. GM ought to just turn their back on that market and go find a different one. A perfectly obvious market would be the car buyers that don't want to spend the $20K or so that a new Toyota costs but still would like to buy a new car and not have to be stuck with someone's off-lease, used Toyota.

If GM brought out a same-feature car as a Toyota in the $8K range, there would be a market there for it. It wouldn't be the market of people buying new Toyotas, it most likely would be the market of people buying USED Toyotas.

Ted

Sign me up as soon as they put out an $8000 car with all the features of the Camry. I just don't see that happening.

It isnt the nameplate, but you are not far off. It is the reputation that is behind that nameplate, merited or not.

GM and even Ford, if they can stay alive long enough and, if they will devote themselves to producing a quality item and treating their clients courteously and fairly, can regain or even improve their images.

If they can't adopt a code of progress and fairness, then maybe they should enter banking, or the stock market, or fast foods.

That's been a major problem for Ford. Ford has been unable to bring out a profitable car in the $12k segment. So those buyers go to Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit or a Hyundai. (I don't know what the cheapest Kia or Hyaundai sells for, but hte cheapest Toyota and Honda I believe are over $10k.) Then, in five years, when they start making more money and need a new car, the new car is Toyota, Honda or Hyundai. And it more like a Rav 4 for a Tundra or Camry, an Accord or Pilot or whatever new and better car comes for Korea.

However, if the first car was a Ford or GM, so might be the second and subsequent cars.

Jeff

It's also the type of car. I bet there would a different response if GM put a Toyota nameplate on one its trucks instead of a car.

Well, a problem is that they have too many clients, the dealers. Instead of most dealers selling over 1000 cars, like they do for foreign nameplates, Ford and GM dealers sell maybe 500, on average. That means more dealers are supported, which makes for more ligistical problems.

It would also help if, when there is a problem with thedesign of their cars, they own up to it and fix the cars right without owners have to jump through hoops. They might save $2000 on a repair, but they won't sell the owner his/her next car.

Why? Without treating costumers right, they won't make it in any business.

Jeff

That dodge caliber is a hunk of s**te..

They could run vehicle scrap recycling yards. Initially most product to them would be GM & Ford vehicles, eventually Toyotas would be their common vehicle to scrap.

People tend to buy what suits them, with lots of emotion where styling is concerned. For me styling must be good but it follows function.

I'm looking for a replacement for my Chrysler, but Sebring sized. Nothing new from Chrysler for several years meets several of my most basic needs.

For example I need a full sized matching spare, and I don't like how GM, Ford and Chrysler have cheapened the body construction so the rear door edge forms the front edge of the wheel well. I'm also preferring a station wagon body design. These are just two of several functional aspects I don't like about the new cars from the big 2.5. In tune with current leading edge engines I want a VVT engine.

Unfortunately I need to go beyond the big 2.5 to meet my functional requirements. The Ford Fusion comes closest to my needs with the big

2.5, but several "foreign" makes do meet my needs. Since my Chrysler is still running very well I can wait it out a bit longer, but if I suddenly had to buy a replacement car the big 2.5 wouldn't be on my short list with their current products.

Unfortunately to many customer, 'treating costumers right,' equates to fixing the vehicle for free for as long as they one the vehicle. LOL

mike

Hey, that's true. I've done quite a bit of warranty work, and you wouldn't believe how some people become irrate when they find out the warranty has expired. You ask, "how long has this been occuring?" "About 2-3 months" "Did you know it would've been covered 2-3 months ago" .......

Beyond their quality, they have an additional problem that they can't get control of. Many of their dealers make it pure torture to both buy and own their products. Many of their enemies were created by the dealers, not the product or the corporation.

They say they can't really tell their dealers what to do. They're independent. Personally, I bet there are people everywhere who would be more than willing to represent them.

You are so right. That's a real problem for them. They don't actually contact their customers.

No doubt that's a strong motivator for some customers. The 100,000 mile warranties were designed to appeal to them.

It is, after all, what I do at home. I don't spend much money at all fixing my cars. Maybe $100 a year per car, if that. My expectations are going to be hard to live up to.

Right on, some dealers are downright ugly and many including me won't enter their business again. Here we have one rich cat who made his initial fortune on a Gm dealership. He now has many dealerships of several stripes including Toyota. Toyota is recent for him, he's a survivor.

His approach is to fire the worst salesman of each month. This attitude of intimidation is passed on against the customers. i've tried them 4 times over 20 years; since I don't submit to their intimidation I leave very soon. Buying a new car is a tough enough decision, without this as well. He hasn't taken up a Chrysler dealership.

And to others, being treated right means the manufacturer fixing what are very obviously design mistakes in the vehicle even if the warranty has expired. :)

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

"Design mistakes?" Maybe.

When these problems show up and are not corrected nor supported for LONG periods of time, one might wonder if these defects are not planned obsolence, or intentional time bombs.

Actually, this is an inexpensive thing for the car makes to do. Some of the repairs they already cover if there is a design problem with the car or truck. And most vehicles don't need major covered repairs in the first

100,000 miles. Things like brakes are considered normal wear and tear items, so they aren't covered. So it is usually not a big cost for the car makers.

Some Hyundai dealers near where Mike lives purchase insurance contracts (aka extended warranties) on the drivetrain for their costumers for between

100,000 and 200,000 miles (after the regular 100,000 mi warranty expires). Most people don't keep their cars that long, so it is a small risk.

Jeff