Re: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL



Clearly, the Ford web page author made a mistake. However , OHV = over head valves and you don't have to have push rods to have over head valves. So while the usage is misleading, it is not false. The 4.6L V-8 most definitely has a over head valves. It also has a single overhead camshaft. So while it is an SOHC engine, it is also a OHV engine.

Especially when you measure the horsepower with special intakes and exhaust...
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/inthenews/03-13-06.html http://www.cars.com/go/crp/buyingGuides/Story.jsp?section=Pickup&story=universalHP2006&subject=stories&referer=&year=New http://www.cars.com/go/news/Story.jsp?section=news&subject=recent&story 1306storyaDN&referer=&aff=sacbee

Not true. You might be able to claim that push rod valve trains have more reciprocating mass, but not necessarily the whole engine (and even then you might be on shaky ground). You should check out NASCAR push rod engines (even the Toyota NASCAR V-8). They spin those 6 liter V-8s to over 10,000 rpm with push rods. If valve train reciprocating mass was the main deterring factor in engine performance, race cars would all be running flat head engines.

Does yours?
People get fixated on maximum horsepower numbers. What I want is a car that drives properly. I've had 240 HP cars that were a pain to drive in traffic, and 140 HP cars that were a joy to drive in traffic. The V-6 Camry I test droive a was a POS. If you floored it, it accelerated briskly, but in around town driving it was hopeless. Unresponsive, the transmission constantly hunted for the right gear, and unless you floored it, it lagged like heck. My SO's 4 cylinder automatic transmission RAV4 drove much better in traffic. Toyota can publish all the big numbers they want for horsepower, but if it drives like a POS, it is a POS.
Ed
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That is a common fault among manufactures who want to advertise high HP, but must spin their engines at high RPMs to attain that HP.. Torque is what gets you doing and keep you at speed on the grades. High winding engines develop their torque at too low an RPM. That is fine for an engine driving a manual tranny with lots of gears that take less HP to run than an automatic tranny. With a high winder engine one must rely on the torque converter and longer times in lower gears to get the lower end HP to the wheels.
If you thought the V6 was a dog, you would never want to drive a Camry in hilly country that has the four. The V6 does a better job than their underpowered 4cy, for a car that size. Lack of torque at the proper RPM becomes evident when one hits a grade, more so than when starting out, because the gearing and the torque converter does the job. At speed, if the driver does not floor the throttle soon enough to keep up the RPMs, the lack of torque will always leave him falling behind the pack.
Truck drivers call Camry drivers 'flatlanders.' People that live in flat country, that get in the trucks way on the grades, because the driver does not to know how to drive when they get in hilly country ;)
mike

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I sold my '00 Maxima 5 speed b/c it had such pitiful torque at low revs. Compared to other manuals I've owned (and I've only nearly all manuals until recently) it was dog to drive and it was very easy to kill the motor. Wife and I both killed the motor from stop more than any car we ever drove. It would go like stink if you drove it like you were mad at it and revved it way up, and up hills ok, b/c the gearing was keeping the motor about 3k rpms, but fuel economy was not stellar. What did we replace it with? Sit down for this one, a '00 Olds Intrigue with the 3.5 DOHC (that was a painful discussion to a few uninformed and stubborns wasn't it?). The Olds 3.5 auto motor goes up hills like they are not even there! And I have yet to have it kick down a gear on a hill, and at moderate highway speeds 60-65 I got 33 - 32 mpg. Who needs a Camry? Oh yea, resale value. So I got my Olds for dirt cheap b/c of poor resale, poor me.
That torquey, smooth and rev happy 3.5 motor would have been DYNAMITE in the minivan and small truck, SUVs. Of course GM developed it for "Olds" only and then "discovered" it cost too much to produce. That my friends is pitiful project management and a waste of money. How many engines has GM designed and then dropped? (the Dual Twin Cam v6, Quad 4, 2.8, etc). Now they have the 3.6 DOHC, but its 7 years later and maybe too late.
D
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> How many engines has GM designed and then dropped? (the Dual Twin Cam v6,

GM seems to have a hard time developing a game plan which will renew their credibility. "Chasing rabbits", we might call it.
No doubt that GM could put out a stellar product line that people would want.
They just have a lot of problems to solve.
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They must be selling something that buyer want to buy. GM is still number one in sales in the US. Millions more than any import. LOL
mike
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That may be true, but they can't seem to make money selling them.
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However the statement, that GM is not offering vehicle that buyer want to buy, is obviously not true based on its sales figure vis a v all other manufactures, foreign or domestic
Don't confuse profit with cost. GM makes a profit on every vehicle it sells, simply not enough to meet the current cost of doing business. It is costing GM billion to introduce all of it newest, and planed, vehicles. GM did make a profit in the fourth quarter and likely will in the first quarter as well. ;)
mike

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Don't confuse wages with cost.
I get wages every month , simply not enough to meet the current cost of running the household. It is costing me a lot to introduce my youngest wife to the pleasures of life.
I did make a good profit in the fourth quarter but my wife just spent a little more ;)

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