GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL

Borrowed off the Internet....I am just the messenger, although I agree that the new Tundra ads are deliberately misleading....
Lou Kaltenstein President Gene Norris Buick-GMC Trucks Inc./Norris Auto Group 18170 Bagley Rd Middleburg Hts., Ohio 44130
There has been a lot of talk about Toyota Tundra's new ads and how impressive they are. Here are some myths about their spots that I have found and that should be refuted. Also, they are offering a "IVC" type program on Tundra to help with sales.
I would guess all of you have seen the ad where the Tundra pulls a trailer up a steep grade (a 'see-saw'), and then barrels down hill and locks the brakes up just before the end of the ramp. Many of you have commented on how well done the spot is visually. However, here are the actual facts to share with people:
1. The V.O. at the beginning of the spot says...."It's tough pushing 10,000 lbs up a steep grade". Myth: Toyota would like the audience to believe the trailer is 10,000 lbs. Fact: It's a 5,000 lb truck pulling a 5,000 lb trailer. A little slight of hand? You bet.
2. Then, on the way down the grade, the camera zooms in on the brakes as the vehicles comes to a screeching halt just prior to the end of ramp. Next time you see the ad....look for the 'mice type'. It indicates the trailer is equipped with electric brakes. Fact....the electric brakes stop the trailer -- not the truck. A little slight of hand? You bet.
3. And why does Toyota have bigger brake pads? They need them....their truck is heavier. Stopping distance between our truck and theirs is virtually identical. And why does Toyota have a 6 speed transmission? To improve their fuel economy....which is still 2 mpg less than ours.
4. And don't forget....their big V8 has one axle ratio -- a 4.3. Suck fuel much? Our trucks offer several axle options to optimize towing and fuel economy.
Ed
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Time will tell what the Tundra can do. Sounds like the GM people are nervous about somebody coming up with competition. He forgets to mention taht also with the 4.3 axle ratio the Tndra has a 6 speed auto which probably about equals their higher ratios with the 4 speed auto that they have. Scott
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Get real. Ford is the Silverado competition not the Tundra. Ford sells 35% of the full-size trucks in the US. Chevy 30% and Toyota a measly 5%. The base engine in the Tundra is a only a V6. The F150 has a six speed and a V8 is standard as well. The Tundra is just beginning to catch up to the build quality of what GM, Ford and Dodge have been offering in their truck for years
mike

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Mike,
Actually Ford and Chevrolet also have standard V-6s in their half ton pickup trucks. When I was shopping for a pickup last year it was much easier to find a V-6 F150 than a V-6 Tundra. There was not a single V-6 Tundra on any of the local lots for me to test drive. V-6 F150 were easy to fiind.
Ed
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No so, all F150s with the trailer tow package have the 4.5 V8 standard.
mike
wrote:

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I did not say the Toyota was better. I know GM builds a great truck. I worked for Chevy dealer for 33 years. I know Toyota is just coming into the large pick-up market and has some thing to learn. That does not mean that their product is not a good truck. GM's build quality is up to world standard now ,I agree with that. But Toyota has always had build quality the rest of the world wishes they had. Scott
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Very well put. I'd probably buy a domestic truck, though. As you said, Toyota's lagging there.
Natalie
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I never said Toyota did not build a good truck, they do. What I said was Toyota is just now starting to catch up to the build quality of domestics truck, not now building one 'better' than the domestics, as the Tundra TV ads imply. Why in the world would GM, Ford and Dodge 'wish' to build a lesser truck in any event? ;)
mike

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What do you expect them to do? Say, "GM and Ford make better trucks?" Of course, they are going to try to show they have a better truck. Just like Coke and Pepsi both try to say they are better than the other.
Jeff
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You must be very young or have a very bad memory. Early 70's Toyota were steaming piles of crap. The 84s Cressida I owned was still a poor quality imitation of a 1968 Nova.
Ed
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"Ed White" ...

Gotta go with Ed on that one. Early Toyotas were craptacular. But unlike GM, they learned from their mistakes...
Natalie
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But not all F150s have the Trailer Tow Package. And no F150 come with a 4.5 V8.
You said "The F150 has a six speed and a V8 is standard as well." This is an incorrect statement since neither a V-8 or a six speed transmission is standard (and the six speed transmission isn't even an option). And your revised statement is also incorrect. Go to www.fordvehicles.com and build an F150. Selecting the Trailer Tow Package does not reuire the V-8 or an automatic transmission. And finally, Ford doesn't offer a 6 speed transmission in the 2007 F150 (they do in the 2007 Expedition).
The following information was clipped directly from the 2007 Ford F150 Ordering Guide:
------
TRAILER TOW PACKAGE (535) Usage: Required for towing over 5,000 lbs. Availability: All F-150 units Includes: Class IV trailer hitch receiver 7-pin wiring harness Upgraded radiator & upgraded auxiliary transmission oil cooler [req. 4.6L V8 (99W), 5.4L 3V V8 (995) or 5.4L 3V V8 FFV(99V) engine; auxiliary transmission oil cooler only w/4.2L V6 A/T (992/44Q)] Optional Equipment: Heavy duty 72-amp battery (59H) [incl. when ordered w/both Satellite Radio (91S) & Rear Seat Entertainment System (915)]
------
Notice that the Trailer Tow Package is availale with all F150 Units. Also notice that it includes an "auxiliary transmission oil cooler only w/4.2L V6 A/T" Please admit that the trailer tow package is available with the 4.2L V-6.
As for the Powertrain Options:
-----
POWERTRAIN 4.2L EFI V6/5-Spd. Manual O/D 4.2L EFI v6/4-Spd. Auto O/D 4.6L EFI V8/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D 5.4L 3V EFI V8/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D 5.4L 3V EFI V8 FFV/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D
-----
Ed

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Aparently have not been following the thread. The dicsssion was about Tundra phony TV ads and their 10,000 towing ability. . If one is looking to buy a truck with which to tow they can not buy a Ford equipped to tow pack that does not have a V8. You are corect the six speed, is a late option, not currantaly available
mike
Ford dealer Guide Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight (Lbs.) - Automatic Transmission
Engine Axle Ratio GCWR (Lbs.) 126 - inch wheel base 144.5 - inch wheel base 4.2L SEFI V6 3.55 10000 5200 5100 (trailer tow package requires 4.6L V8) 4.6L Triton SEFI V8 3.55 11500 6600 - 6200 5.4L Triton 3-valve SEFI V8 3.55 13000 8000 - 7700
(All Ford trucks since the late eignties have required an automatic tranny if the TT option was added).
Trailer tow package
Includes Class IV trailer hitch receiver, 7-pin wiring harness, upgraded radiator and upgraded auxiliary transmission oil cooler (requires 4.6L or 5.4L Triton V8); aux. trans. oil cooler only with 4.2L V6 A/T
"
mike
wrote:

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wrote:

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On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:13:38 GMT, "C. E. White"
No where near as despective as some of detriots tow ratings. I am not pro toyota here but Detriot uses no science with its ratings and Ford inflated their max 1/2 ton ratings because of Yota but the facts are it does not have near the power than the yota does. If you do the math and factor is axle ratio, rated torque and RPM, and transmision ratios, the Yota beats them all is actal drawbar or pulling power. It takes power to move the load, not a inflated rating. Be glad there is a Toyota because Detriot will be forced to improve their trucks against it and consumers will get a better product in the end. Toyota has their act together with the new Tundra with a 5.7 and a 6 speed and they even spaced the tranny ratios properly to best apply power to load (you can hit torque peak in the first three gears by 58 MPH in it at 24, 41 and 58 MPH respecably vs 32 ,54 and 85 MPH for Ford, 39, 65 and 96 MPH for GM 6.0 Vortec max and 33, 60 and 99 MPH for Dodge Hemi. Not only does the Toyota have more usable and effective gearing to get load moving, it also has more torque as well to apply to those gears so it is simple physics here. The Yota has the greatest mechanical advantage over the load via gearing and availble power so it will pull a load better than any of them. Kinda a like comparing a small guy with a pry bar against a big guy with a bigger pry bar try to move something. The Yota has the bigger guy (more torque) and the longer bar (better effective gearing) so the end result is quite predicable before you even hitch it up to a load. The scary part is that the Yota actaully has more true towing/pulling power to move a load than all new gas powered 3/4 and 1 ton trucks if you do the math since GM no longer has the 8.1 and the Hemi is no tow king. A Ford V10 would be the only one to likley meet of exceed it. (we are talking actual towing power that can be aplied to load not weather it is a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton chassis) Given the math behind the new Tndra, if they go into the 3/4 and 1 ton market Detriot better get their act together because if Yota can make a 1/2 ton that can pull that hard just think of what they could do with a 3/4 ton or bigger. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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wrote:

It is not the going that bothers me, it is the stopping....
If I wanted to tow a heavy load, I would go for an F250/F350. They also have a six speed transmission. Ford/GM/Dodge all have 3/4 and 1 ton trucks for people that actually need to tow 10,000 lbs. Toyota is not trying to create that distinction i.e., they don't have a separate Tundra HD model to compete with the F350/350 or Silverado HD. If you want to compare the Tundra to other trucks capable of towing heavy loads, then I contend you must compare it to the heavy duty pick-ups from Ford, GM, and Dodge. And if you want to limit your discussion to big "gas" engines, then here are the engine comparisons:
Tundra - 5.7L V-8 - 381 hp @ 5600 rpm 401 lb.-ft. @ 3600 rpm F250 - 6.8L V-10 - 362 hp @ 4750 rpm 457 lb. -ft @ 3250 rpm Silverado HD2500 6.0L V-8 - 367 hp @ 5500 rpm 375 lb. - ft @ 4300 rpm Dodge 2500 - 345 hp @ 5400 rpm 375 lb. - ft @ 4200 rpm
For towing I would contend that torque is more important that horsepower -especially horsepower at 5600 rpm. Which engine would you rather have to tow a heavy load? The one with 401 lb.-ft of torque at 3600 rpm, or the one with 457 lb.- ft of torque at 3250 rpm? F250s also have a six speed automatic transmission and offer a variety of rear gear ratios? So if you wanted to tow a heavy load, which truck would be the better choice?
As an aside - I run a small farm and raise cattle (I sell around 20 claves a year to the feeder calf market). I can't justify owning a HD truck and cattle trailer for my 1 or 2 trips to the sale a year, so I hire one of my neighbors to do it for me. He has a fifth wheel cattle trailer that can haul 20 to 25 calves at a time (figure around 9,000 lbs of cattle + the trailer). Until this year he has always used an F250 with a diesel to pull the trailer. When he moved some cattle for me earlier this year, he had a new F350. I assumed it was a diesel. I was curious how the "new" powerstroke diesel performed compared to the older versions. I started asking him about the truck and he was very positive. Said it pulled really well and that he really liked the engine except the fuel economy was not as good. This confused me because I though the new diesels were supposed to be better. When I mentioned this, he just laughed. He explained he didn't get a diesel. His new truck had a 5.4L V-8. He said it had plenty of power and towing the trailer was not a problem at all. It was his opinion than even the V-10 was overkill and the expensive diesel option was completely unnecessary.
Ed
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One more thing - The list price for a stripped F250 V-10 six speed automatic is less than the price for a stripped Tundra 5.7L V-8 six speed automatic even before the $3000 rebate on the F250 is figured in.
Ed
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Maxwell House is cheaper than edible coffee.
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"JoeSpareBedroom" ...

LOL.
Now, come on - Ford trucks are pretty good. I'd consider one if I were in the market for a truck.
Natalie
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I generally avoid companies who've previously sold me products that were intentionally made defective. I violated my rule once with Ford. I won't do it a second time unless they give me the product for free, and pay me a hefty aggravation bonus any time it had what I considered to be a stupid problem. $1000.00 per incident would be about right.
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