Re: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:13:38 GMT, "C. E. White" wrote:

No where near as despective as some of detriots tow ratings. I am not pro toyota here but Detriot uses no science with its ratings and Ford inflated their max 1/2 ton ratings because of Yota but the facts are it does not have near the power than the yota does. If you do the math and factor is axle ratio, rated torque and RPM, and transmision ratios, the Yota beats them all is actal drawbar or pulling power. It takes power to move the load, not a inflated rating. Be glad there is a Toyota because Detriot will be forced to improve their trucks against it and consumers will get a better product in the end. Toyota has their act together with the new Tundra with a 5.7 and a 6 speed and they even spaced the tranny ratios properly to best apply power to load (you can hit torque peak in the first three gears by 58 MPH in it at 24, 41 and 58 MPH respecably vs 32 ,54 and 85 MPH for Ford, 39, 65 and 96 MPH for GM 6.0 Vortec max and 33, 60 and 99 MPH for Dodge Hemi. Not only does the Toyota have more usable and effective gearing to get load moving, it also has more torque as well to apply to those gears so it is simple physics here. The Yota has the greatest mechanical advantage over the load via gearing and availble power so it will pull a load better than any of them. Kinda a like comparing a small guy with a pry bar against a big guy with a bigger pry bar try to move something. The Yota has the bigger guy (more torque) and the longer bar (better effective gearing) so the end result is quite predicable before you even hitch it up to a load. The scary part is that the Yota actaully has more true towing/pulling power to move a load than all new gas powered 3/4 and 1 ton trucks if you do the math since GM no longer has the 8.1 and the Hemi is no tow king. A Ford V10 would be the only one to likley meet of exceed it. (we are talking actual towing power that can be aplied to load not weather it is a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton chassis) Given the math behind the new Tndra, if they go into the 3/4 and 1 ton market Detriot better get their act together because if Yota can make a 1/2 ton that can pull that hard just think of what they could do with a 3/4 ton or bigger.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

It is not the going that bothers me, it is the stopping....

If I wanted to tow a heavy load, I would go for an F250/F350. They also have a six speed transmission. Ford/GM/Dodge all have 3/4 and 1 ton trucks for people that actually need to tow 10,000 lbs. Toyota is not trying to create that distinction i.e., they don't have a separate Tundra HD model to compete with the F350/350 or Silverado HD. If you want to compare the Tundra to other trucks capable of towing heavy loads, then I contend you must compare it to the heavy duty pick-ups from Ford, GM, and Dodge. And if you want to limit your discussion to big "gas" engines, then here are the engine comparisons:

Tundra - 5.7L V-8 - 381 hp @ 5600 rpm 401 lb.-ft. @ 3600 rpm F250 - 6.8L V-10 - 362 hp @ 4750 rpm 457 lb. -ft @ 3250 rpm Silverado HD2500 6.0L V-8 - 367 hp @ 5500 rpm 375 lb. - ft @ 4300 rpm Dodge 2500 - 345 hp @ 5400 rpm 375 lb. - ft @ 4200 rpm

For towing I would contend that torque is more important that horsepower -especially horsepower at 5600 rpm. Which engine would you rather have to tow a heavy load? The one with 401 lb.-ft of torque at

As an aside - I run a small farm and raise cattle (I sell around 20 claves a year to the feeder calf market). I can't justify owning a HD truck and cattle trailer for my 1 or 2 trips to the sale a year, so I hire one of my neighbors to do it for me. He has a fifth wheel cattle trailer that can haul 20 to 25 calves at a time (figure around 9,000 lbs of cattle + the trailer). Until this year he has always used an F250 with a diesel to pull the trailer. When he moved some cattle for me earlier this year, he had a new F350. I assumed it was a diesel. I was curious how the "new" powerstroke diesel performed compared to the older versions. I started asking him about the truck and he was very positive. Said it pulled really well and that he really liked the engine except the fuel economy was not as good. This confused me because I though the new diesels were supposed to be better. When I mentioned this, he just laughed. He explained he didn't get a diesel. His new truck had a 5.4L V-8. He said it had plenty of power and towing the trailer was not a problem at all. It was his opinion than even the V-10 was overkill and the expensive diesel option was completely unnecessary.

Ed

One more thing - The list price for a stripped F250 V-10 six speed automatic is less than the price for a stripped Tundra 5.7L V-8 six speed automatic even before the $3000 rebate on the F250 is figured in.

Ed

Maxwell House is cheaper than edible coffee.

Go check their web site.

Where did you find the gear ratios for the above trucks and do you have them for the Nissan Titan? Did you ever see a Dodge Mega Cab 1500? The 06 is a full 3/4 ton truck disguised as a 1/2 ton.

Just wondering....

Al

BTW: GMC is still showing the 8.1 as an option??

Al

As quoted directly for the Ford Dealer Order Guide What part of, "Trailer Tow Package" includes Class IV trailer hitch receiver, 7-pin wiring harness, upgraded radiator and upgraded auxiliary transmission oil cooler (requires

mike

Ford knows what their trucks are worth....

It turns out Toyota is worth more if they sell for more.

People tend to buy the best tool for the job.

Unlike you, I did:

Engine, , Vortec 8.1L V8 SFI, (330 hp [245.8 kW] @ 4200 rpm, 450 lb-ft of torque [607.5 N-m] @ 3200 rpm) (L18) $950.00

Right from the GMC website. The Duramax is $6030 now!

Al

Dummy, Your're supposed to drink the coffee not eat it!!!!!!!! (Just joking)/

DaveD

Yes. Unlike me. Be your own secretary.

Right. And the Impala should be compared to the Lexus ES 460.

It's a half-ton. Compare it to the half-tons.

I see that Toyota has more torque and more horsepower than the GM and Dodge

I wonder which gasser gets better fuel economy? Hmm... Ford, GM and Dodge don't appear to have supplied fuel economy figures to Edmunds. Perhaps that answers my question.

No wonder you have a spare bedroom:)

Toyota buyer do not understand trucks. Look at the hugh differance in the RPMs at which the HP and torque is acheved. That is why the Ford will drag the Tundra backward all over the lot in a Tug of War

Tundra - 5.7L V-8 - 381 hp @ 5600 rpm 401 lb.-ft. @ 3600 rpm F250 - 6.8L V-10 - 362 hp @ 4750 rpm 457 lb. -ft @ 3250 rpm

mike

I'd like to know what you think you're commenting on...

Or do you think that "Ford" is sometimes spelled "GM" or "Dodge?"

However, as long as you're at it...

Yes, let's. Oooh... Looks like Toyota has a major advantage in lower-end torque over the GM and Dodge products.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Bill Ford and Alan Mullaly should be thankful that Toyota hasn't introduced a V-10.

...yet.

Y'know... I looked up F250 pricing on Edmunds and I was astonished to find that the V10 option was a mere $600.

I suppose I should presume that Ford knows what they're doing with option pricing but that seems awfully low. I can't help but think that they could make an extra $400 (or more profit) by marking up that V10 option a bit. I would expect someone looking at the fuel economy of a V10 can't be anywhere near as much price-sensitive as they are determined to get a LOT of power.

Do you think they're leaving money on the table or do you think that most V10 purchases are simply... "well, as long as you have one in stock and it's only a few hundred more..."?

LMFAO, now that is funny....

If you like the Toyota so much, and love pumping money into japan's economy, dont let the door hit you where the sun dont shine on the way out.

I do notice Toyota aint doing so well in the Nextel series. Waltrip cant get qualified, and Dale Jarrett is burning up his provisionals to get on the track..

Whitelightning