Some General Motors vehicles outrank Toyota's

Jane

The url for one of the sidebars in the article details a lot of the problem:

I wish it were not that way, Jane. An Englishman once told me 'It is not what one IS, but what one is PERCEIVED to be, that makes the difference'. There is a lot of truth in that, even though English cars are not perceived to be very good.

Every GM I have ever owned - and there are a good many in my past - had some seriously irritating fault or shortcoming. From the cracking Iron Duke blocks, to the weak Metric transmission, to the lousy CS alternators, the failing engine plenums and gaskets, and many more.

I know you can't do anything about this.

But it is the reason that I, and many others who have been stung by GM over the years, are a bitter about it.

Now, back to the Englishman's statement...Perception may get you in the door (or kicked out), but to stay on top, you have to produce a product that people want.

GM's models are not really boring and dull. They are, IMHO, plagued by expensive failures and a GM bad attitude toward making a quality product and standing behind it.

At least you said in your opinion. Too many poster like to state their personal opinions as fact. Obviously not all of GM vehicles have been problematic or GM would not still be selling more than anybody else, even more than they did back in the fifties when they had 50% of the market. The truth is more people still want GMs vehicles more than any others, that is why they are still number one no matter how much some others may want the brand they buy to be number one.

mike hunt

Mike,

I would like to hear your take on:

What that survey tells us is that fully 98% of the vehicles sold in the US are trouble free, if listed as a percentage rather than presented as a 'list' On any list there will be one at the top, one at the bottom and the balance listed in-between. Surely you don't believe that the Scion vehicles are junk just because they fall below average on a list?

mike hunt

Well, whether you believe it or not, I try to be as objective as I can about things like this.

I am in the market for a new car, and haven't come to a conclusion yet about what it will be.

Because of my experience in all aspect of the business I am often asked what to buy. My advice is to drive all those that meet your needs and buy the one with the 'total drive home price' that suits your budget. All manufactures are building good reliable vehicles today, the only real difference is style and price, IMO ;)

mile hunt

If that is true, GM is in worse shape than we thought, because it makes no sense to buy GM when Hyundais are so much cheaper.

Come to think of it, the Tiburon is actually better looking than most GM products.

nate

I have been hearing really glowing reports about the newer Hyundais. There was a claim in the latest Popular Science that the Azera is a fine car...a 'budget Lexus'.

I have an appointment to drive one tomorrow.

They don't have the prestige appeal that a Lexus or other might have, but we are interested in good transportation.

With a 7 year, 100,000 mile warranty, one might come out okay.

Every manufacture is building good dependable vehicles today, one need not pay a premium price to drive one home.

mike hunt

All a lot cheaper than ony other import as well ;)

mike hunt

Seriously, I have a couple friends with Elantras and they love them to death. I have never driven one so I can't say whether a "car guy" would find one appealing or not, but the price and warranty is hard to beat. A friend's wife just got a new one, the interior is best described as "bargain basement VW-esque" which really isn't all bad. It could pass for a VW except the materials are just a little cheaper-feeling and appearing. This probably won't be welcome news to most readers of this newsgroup, but it is a lot less Spartan and uninviting than that of my Impala...

nate

I will let you know tomorrow what we think of the Azera..

Your impression will be interesting. I know of the Hyundai of some years back that was a horrid pile of rust. While they have improved greatly, my perception is that I'm not ready to spend $27,000 for one yet, but I may be wrong.

A little bit less than totally relevant, because our Hyundai is an '04 and the '06's are a new styling, but we do have one in our garage. It was hard for a dyed in the wool GM guy to make a non-GM purchase, but I had rented a ton of Hyundai's while traveling for my job. (That's one of the ways I use to help decide what I might buy when I'm in the market).

I bought our Hyundai for my wife and it's an '04 Sonata GLS. Very nice car. Unbelievable power out of a little 2.7L motor. Unbelievable. The car is well built and extremely quiet and smooth to drive. In fact, every time I get in to drive the car I am amazed at how smooth the ride is.

The seats are not what I'm used to in a GM though. They are harder and they don't have the same support for your thighs that a GM seat has. They aren't uncomfortable in any way, but the feel is different and it takes getting used to. I prefer the GM feel much more. Other than the feel of the seats, the interior of her car is what I call "very Buick-esq". It just looks and feels like you're in a Buick when you climb into the cabin.

Pre-2006 Hyundai Sonatas (not sure of the rest of the fleet) used a timing belt instead of a chain in the engine. Since these are interference engines, you have to change the belt every 60,000 miles. For car guys, it's a Saturday project. Hyundai is very good about honoring warranty if work is done by someone other than a Hyundai, but wants to see genuine Hyundai parts used in the repair to keep the warranty alive. If you take the car to a dealer for the belt changes, costs range anywhere between $350-$800 for parts and labor on this job, depending on where you live in the country. These costs typically cover the timing belt, idler, water pump (since they are working under the timing cover, these are often replaced as a matter of practice, not because the warranty requires it), and the exterior belts - since they have to come off anyway.

I only detailed that little tid-bit for the sake of putting what I consider to be the biggest maintenance issue of our Hyundai out on the table. Again - beginning in '06 some if not all of the Hyundai motors went to a timing chain, so this piece of work isn't even necessary with them. But in the grand scheme of things, that is really not a killer maintenance requirement every 60,000 miles.

All in all the Sonata is a fine car - a great car when you consider what you get for the price. You'll leave thousands in the savings account that you would have spent on any other brand - Toyota included. I took my wife out for a test drive in an Elantra when we bought the Sonata. Not the same class of car. Think Cavalier.

They've changed a great deal Edwin. Like I said in a previous post, it took a lot to get a dyed in the wool GM guy like me to buy one, but there is one in my garage now. It sits among 4 GM vehicles, but it's there. Don't take that full $27,000 to the dealership when you go to buy that car though. Street prices on these cars is significantly less than sticker.

There's actually a fairly frank and honest environment over in alt.autos.hyundai. Lots of free discussion among owners and prospective owners of different Hyundai models. I'd suggest a brief visit over to there for some looks at what people are thinking of the newer Hyundai's.

A few years ago, they apparently had the technology and the prestige of a Lada. We'll see.

The Dallas auto ads in last weeks paper had the Azera, which is -I guess- the top of the line, at a little over $21,000

Well, the test drive is over, and I'll have to say that the Hyundai Azera is very impressive.

Workmanship and materials look very good, the ride is smooth and quiet, and the power from the V6 3.7 litre engine is ample.

It appears to be quite a nice car.