There was no "lying" involved. Just different interpretations of the older
procedure. The Japanese manufacturers were testing with non-standard intake
and exhaust systems. The new procedures require you to use systems as
restrictive as the ones actually used in the vehicles. You also have to use
the recommended grade of fuel and lubricants. The new procedures did not
seem to negatively affect US manufacturer's at all. The old procedure was
supposed to reflect the "installed" horsepower, but not everything was
spelled out exactly. Most American manufacturers adhered to the spirit of
the procedures. The Japanese manufacturers were adhering to the exact
wording. Nothing wrong with that, but it a typical Japanese thing. I can't
tell you how many times I have gotten in a Japanese car and found it to be
cramped, when, if you look at the interior measurements, it should be as
large or larger than American and Europeans vehicles in the same class. The
Japanese are very numbers oriented and do some weird things to make the
numbers come out right - even if the reality is something else.
This is the second time the horsepower measurement procedures have changed
in my memory. The first time was in the early 70s. Before that change,
engines were tested with all the accessories (even water pumps) driven
They were not caught lying because they were not lying. The old standard was
loose and subject to interpretation (read the words in your link), the new
one is tighter.
Anyone who thinks anybody buys a Camry or Corolla on the basis of horsepower
is simple minded and probably should not be allowed to go outside alone for
their own safety.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: Toyota and some others got caught lying (inflating their
So why do Nissan and Toyota spend so much time telling me how much power
their vehicles have? The press crapped all over the Ford 500 because it did
not have enough "power," despite actually being faster than a Camry in 0-60
tests. Numbers do matter. Horsepower might not be the primary reason someone
buys a Camry. but seeing claims that it has a more powerful engine than the
immediate competitors might give you one more reason to pick the Camry. Or
having the press dish a car because it does not have as much power as a
Camry might convince you to not even look at the competitor (even if you
really only want the 4 cylinder Camry). The inflated numbers fed the
perception that the Japanese are better at building and designing cars.
While I agree that Toyota was not "lying" about horsepower numbers, I am
also certain that they knew that they were not measuring horsepower in the
same way as most American manufacturers. They were taking advantage of a
poorly defined portion of the procedure. While this might not have fooled
you or me, it certainly was misleading for many people who assumed the
horsepower numbers reflected the actual horsepower of the engine as
installed in the car.
The automotive press doesn't really care at all about the published power
spec. They're all going to take the cars to New England Dragway and see
what the cars will do with whatever fantasy number is under the hood. The
numbers they compare are 0-60mph, 0-1320ft and 60-0mph.
The 2006 Camry LE with 2.4L I4 engine goes 0-60 just .3 secs slower than a
2006 Impala with the base 3.5L V6 engine. That Camry gets better fuel
economy and costs less than the base Impala.
The automotive press notices things like that and says, "Why pay more?"
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ****** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from
Right on Ed. It is very noticeable how prominent HP ratings are in
advertising today. Darn near every TV commercial that comes on really
makes a point about the HP. From luxury cars to sedans. "The new xxx
HP yyyyyyyyyy..." I suppose those poor dumb auto companies that pay
for the ads, and the ad companies are just too dumb to know that HP
rating isn't important to buyers. Hehe.
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:13:52 -0500, "C. E. White"
Try this scenario. The headline says 'Ford and GM overstate the HP in most
of their vehicles, Toyota and Honda do not.' Would the argument about it
not making any difference, still be taking place? LOL
I think many people buy it in part based on stated HP rating. If you
are comparing vehicles that have somewhat similar cargo area, fuel
economy or whatever the other factors are, then HP rating can be an
important distinction for some.
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:22:06 -0800, "GLitwinski"
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.