Toyota Quality

You can't detect where the coolant loss is occurring on a 3800 without disassembling the upper _and_ lower intake manifolds from the engine. THAT is not preventive maintenance.

Bullshit! I referred lots of people to the dealer for satisfaction and they were turned down. If they got anything goodwilled, it was a packet of ground up walnutshell and ginger which only caused further problems like clogged heater cores.

Make good on their f*ck up?

Reply to
aarcuda69062
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If the engine was consuming coolant a pressure test was all that was needed to determine that their was coolant leaking into the engine, dummy.

If one was turned down by a GM dealership it was because the were over the time/mileage limit of the extended warranty. Why would ANY dealership turn down ANY warranty claim that would be paid by ANY manufacture, dummy?

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Everything I posted was factual, DUMMY. Learn to comprehend what you read before you comment, DUMMY. Start by learning the definition of the word catastrophic, DUMMY. The case was settled with no testimony, only stipulations,, DUMMY. Learn the definition of the word deposed, DUMMY. Proper preventive maintenance .... ... , DUMMY. That was not my comment, DUMMY. GM extended the warranty after liability was determined, DUMMY. ________________________________________________________________________

Mike:

I have enjoyed your posts for a long time, particularly the practical comments based on your knowledge and experience.

In the current thread about gasket failures, your comments on the topic were not completely clear, and sincere and intelligent persons could have easily misunderstood and questioned them. It can only chill good faith conversation by calling these persons "dummy".

I realize there is a howling army of people anxiously waiting to leap on every Mike Hunt post to find something to criticize, whether it's an opinion, a recitation of facts, a misspelled word or typo, or even a complicated sentence. But your comments stand on their own; nothing can be gained by superfluously calling these people "dummy.",

Keep up the helpful advice and information and and try to not be diverted by the background noise.

Good luck.

Rodan.

Reply to
Rodan

Point taken, but I only make remarks like that after I have first been called names by others.

My post was an effort to try to enlighten those with the err>

Reply to
Mike Hunter

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:30:44 -0500, Ed Pawlowski fired up the etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:

Speaking of Toyota Quality...

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Motorists, experts say throttles, not floor mats, to blame for sudden acceleration in Toyota, Lexus models Amid widening concern over acceleration events, Toyota has cited 'floor mat entrapment.' But reports point to another potential cause: the electronic throttles that have replaced mechanical systems.

(I was wondering how a floor mat - stuck *UNDER* a gas pedal could cause it to open. It would - in fact - close.)

Reply to
PerfectReign

How can you be as old as you are and a supposed industry insider and not know that an out of court settlement has nothing to do with right or wrong and everything to do with what is going to cost the least.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

Catastrophic to you means what if not 'the engine is junk.'

An out of court settlement has nothing to do with who is right or wrong, it's all about who has the most money and can last the longest thru all the legal maneuvering.

I know full well what "deposed" means. If in fact YOU were deposed in this affair, perhaps you might be able to remember that the first question asked of you was "do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth."

THAT is testimony, only difference is that it doesn't necessarily have to be done in a formal courtroom setting.

On Friday, November 27, 2009 YOU stated;

-------------------------------------------------------- "It was fleets service shops like mine that first became aware of the trouble with none asbestos gaskets. I was deposed by the court to testify in the Ford case against the gasket manufacturers."

-------------------------------------------------------- You really should try harder to keep up with the bullshit you spew.

Ya see Mike, that's the thing about lying, it's SO much harder to remember the lies than it is to remember things that one actually experienced.

So, sort it out now, was it _YOUR_ imaginary fleet service shop that first discovered the problem, or was it the gasket manufacturers thru preventive maintenance who first discovered the problem?

No they didn't. There is no extended warranty on the failing intake manifold gaskets. There are/were individual dealerships who are/were giving goodwill coverage IF the vehicle owner had a history of loyalty to the dealership service department for their PM work, but that example in and of it's self presents a double edged sword.

I can cite an example where GM wouldn't even cover their warranty repair on a 3800 one month after it was done and botched where their mechanic left one of the lower intake bolts out resulting in excessive manifold vacuum in the crankcase, hell, they couldn't even diagnose the resulting driveability problem.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

You finally got it. The Ford case was specifically about head gaskets.

The gasket manufactures by settling out of court and excepting responsibly for all of the gasket cases pending before the court, avoided the need to spend millions defending all of the other pending gasket litigation which became moot.

Reply to
Mike Hunter

You in ability to understand what you read is your problem, not mine. That is why you are confused. I'm not going to spend any more of my time in an effort to enlighten you on the subject.

Of course you are free to continue to believe whatever you wish, no matter how convoluted your reasoning may be. Bye

Reply to
Mike Hunter

You can't SEE coolant leaking into an engine until you disassemble the engine DUMMY.

Every GM vehicle I've ever seen and worked on has rubber coolant hoses, these hoses have give meaning the actual pressure reading on the tester gauge will drop whether there is a leak or there isn't a leak.

If you don't see coolant leaking externally as such would be the case on the 3.1L, 3.4L, 4.3L, 5.0L, 5.7L engines when the gaskets fail, then the only choice the technician has is to disassemble DUMMY!

Now, prove how smart you are, explain WHY the 3800 does not exhibit external leakage when the intake manifold gaskets fail and leak coolant.

When you say "extended warranty" you mean in fact the extended warranty offered for extra cost, don't you?

Why should the vehicle owner (customer) have to bet against themselves to get remedy on a problem that shouldn't have happened to begin with?

Because it won't effect their CSI if it wasn't bought there. Because they think they can get the job customer pay. Because they don't want to take the 33% labor time hit- warranty vs. customer pay. Because the dealership has excessive warranty claims and they're subject to audit. Because the customer hasn't returned there for LOFs, tires, brakes, tune-ups, etc. so the service department adopts a cut off my nose to spite my face attitude.

An insider like you should know these reasons.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

I never called you a name before you childishly resorted to calling me "dummy." Then again, being called names by you is in its own right a badge of honor.

Why is it ridiculous?

GM has a long history of trying to deceive the buying public.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

It isn't me who has the inability to understand. Your whole argument is based upon myth and falsehood. The EPA -attempted- to ban certain asbestos containing products in 1989. That ban was overturned in 1991 by a federal court. Asbestos never was nor has it ever been banned as a gasket material in automotive engines. Even now today, asbestos is legal to use as a gasket material. I can buy them any day of the week. I can but asbestos gaskets ready made-ready to install, I can buy it as bulk asbestos gasket material. The information concerning this is easily found on the EPA website. There are numerous other sites which also explain how full of bullshit you are. I agree though, you -shouldn't- spend any more time on this, you are wrong plain and simple. Reason being, you bit hook-line and sinker into a bunch of myths and half truths, putting yourself into the position of knowing just enough to be dangerous.

One might think given the billions of dollars that GM has squandered over the years, why it is that YOU are the best they could come up with as an apologist.

Your timeline just doesn't add up Mike even considering the two years between when the EPA attempted to ban asbestos and when that ban was overturned. GM had NO wholesale problems with gasket failures in the late 80s and early 90s, on the contrary, the comparable engines offered back then are far and away less likely to suffer intake manifold gasket or any other gasket failure compared to the crap they began producing in the mid 90s and forward.

The only thing you might have EVER been deposed about would have been missing urinal cakes.

I believe facts Mike, not the diluted garbage printed in enthusiast magazines.

For those who would rather deal with facts;

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Reply to
aarcuda69062

If you were to look at one carefully, you would see how this could happen. It is VERY possible, if you have aftermarket or poorly fitted floormats. But, this may not be the total answer.

Let's wait until the total story is told. I am convinced our two Toyotas are safe. If I find differently, I will be out for blood too, but up to now that has not been the case.

Reply to
hls

Correct assessment. Also Toyota is not going to spend $ millions fixing the wrong problem (floor mats instead of throttle bodies). Toyota wants this fixed as much as anybody if there really is a design problem.

Vito

Reply to
Uncle_vito

Never had a problem with them in any manner.

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The 3.8 or the 3800? There is a difference. I had two cars (83 Buick, 83 Olds) with the 3.8 and both engines had to be rebuilt and the rebuilds also crapped out in less than 40,000 miles. That, IMO, is a rather piss poor rating of reliability.

I had two cars with the 3800 and they are OK. Other problems with the cars, but the engine is good. One had the transmission rebuilt though, as well as other parts falling apart.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski
1983? Shouldn't you be posting in an antique or classic car NG?

Reply to
Mike Hunter

If one practices placing the shift lever in neutral and turning the key to off, they should be fine.

Reply to
Mike Hunter

I go along with Ed on the 3.8. Nice engine with plenty of torque where it counted. Low parts count, great fuel economy on 87 octane.

Had one in '92 Park Ave. (125K), '96 Regal (130K) and '01 LeSabre (147K). More recently in a GMC truck. Buick initiated recalled '92 for a #1 bearing replacement and the '01 for a plenum reseal. Total 'out of commission' time for both cars was three days. (Not bad for about 400K of driving). Each of these cars was running well when sold to private parties.

My neighbor's Avalon sludged up and he was without a car for a week. Another neighbor had a valve timing tensioner guide fail on an Infiniti and that trashed the engine (over a week out of commission.)

Buick mailed letters on both recalls and dealer followed up with a phone call to schedule the job. Dealer provided a loaner for the bearing job.

This year we seriously considered an ES350 to replace the LeSabre. Took a hard look at the LaCrosse, liked what we saw and bought it-- nice quiet ride and the electronics systems integration makes the 2010 Lexus look like it was designed by amateurs!

The 3.6L VVT engine is well mannered and much quieter than the old 3.8. Not sure I like the complexity of the 3.6 -- time will tell.

-- pj

Reply to
pj

On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:24:51 -0800, pj fired up the etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:

My neighbor just recently got rid of her '94 Bonneville with the 3.8. It eventually formed a crack in the block as a result of the mechanic forgetting to fill up the oil after a change. (The car had over 200K miles.)

She would have kept it, since the mechanic was going to replace the engine, but felt it was time for a change after fifteen years.

Reply to
PerfectReign

Mine had 122k miles on it when I got it. I guess it was already past its point of no return. :)

Reply to
Eric O.

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