My thanks to this news group and several websites that decribe the
main relay problem. I had an intermittent problem with flashing
sports light and check engine light for 5 years. It was getting bad
enough that I was going to donate the car. Dealer wanted to
put in a new transmission. A mechanic said he replaced the main
rely. I finally took out the main relay myself and found bad solder
joints exactly as pictured on several web sites. Bought a new one
for $40 (too timid to try fixing solder myself). Problem is solved.
Until the new relay gets the same problem.
I believe that people who have resoldered their original relay have had no
failures since,but a new relay may develop the same fractures.
(makes me wonder if the relay maker used the right solder alloy for the
Now if you still have the old relay,you could find a friend who knows how
to solder and has the tools to re-do the old relay and keep it as a spare.
IIRC,some people here have had MR failures 6-7 yrs after purchase.
The MR on my 94 Integra GSR lasted longer than before it was re-soldered.
(and failed about at 7 yrs)
Too bad that car got stolen,stripped and torched last month. :-(
Now I have a 2003 Sentra SE-R Spec V.
I've been reading over on sci.electronics.design about the many different
solder alloys manufacturers use on wave-soldering lines;some will fracture
more easily than others,some may crystalize sooner.(and then fracture)
The new lead-free solders are even worse;lots of NEW consumer products with
fractured solder joints. Some solder alloys are not as ductile as others.
It's got plenty of power(rated 175 HP -before mods),tho I miss the
hatchback and fold down rear seats of the Integra.One of the [previous
owners installed headers,cold air intake,short throw shifter,cat-back
exhaust(a tad noisy for me)and slightly lower springs/shocks.So,it handles
well,but rides a bit stiff.It has 17" rims and 215/45 WR17 tires.6 speed
manny tranny,and limited-slip diff. I really haven't wrung it out yet.
It's hard to keep it to the speed limit!
I would have gotten another Integra GS-R *IF* I had a garage to keep it
safe.... you can install all sorts of alarms and protections,but they still
will break in and tear the car up trying to take it,and then steal
important pieces like the ECU,seats,etc.
Apt.complexes are just mini-shopping malls for Midnite Auto thieves.
At least the Spec V has RFID chipped keys.
Why post it to me? You do know that the exploit being discussed above has
nothing to do with a remote starter as they don't use an RFID
challenge/response signaling system, don't you?
To clone a remote starter remote control signal you would have to be
scanning/reading the code while the button is repeatedly pressed a number of
times till the scanner could figure out the algorithm used for the code
hopping. They don't transmit when the receive a challenge signal.
If you want to be paranoid about the article mentioned above, then the way
to protect oneself is to have their stock Honda (or any other brand) key
stored in a lead lined key case when walking around with it in their pocket.
The car alarm, remote starter, keyless entry unit, to be cloned would
require first getting your hands on the actual FOB, in which case you don't
need to clone it as you have the original.
All that aside, I'm guessing the "post that to seth on the "Honda Pilot EXL
2007 - remote start" thread from july 14." was more an attempt at being
obnoxious than anything else. I know I never said the system was
invulnerable, just not a high-risk threat. Having one's head or house
destroyed by a piece of falling debris is also possible, but again, not
likely and therefore I'm not losing any sleep worrying about it.
Coincidently, neither my home owners insurance, car insurance or life
insurance has any clause excluding space debris or remote starters. If they
thought it was a high risk possibility you better believe they would have a
clause and an additional cost rider as a result to make more money off the
seth, with respect, you're welcome to justify the remote starters you
sell any way you want. but in terms of how the key [and replication
system] works, you don't understand and are therefore propagating
misinformation. that's not to say you haven't read the marketing blurb
and can repeat it, but in terms of mechanism, you're still unclear.
it's a challenge/response mechanism - just like you have with computer
network authentication. on startup, ecu signals for code with token,
key hashes with it's own unique code that the ecu has been programmed to
recognize, then transmits it back. if the token has been hashed
correctly, the ecu will arm the ignition system. all an outsider has to
do to break in is, well, follow the procedure spelled out in the
article. the remote starter performs challenge/response just like the key.
are you welcome to have on in your own vehicle? sure. but please don't
say they're impossible to hack because they're not. just like the key
is not. the remote starter makes vehicle theft easier because there's a
"key" permanently attached to the vehicle. as i said at the start, some
people do this stuff for the technical challenge. hence the article.
which i didn't write.
The key (Honda key from factory) is challenge/response. I didn't say
otherwise. The FOB that controls the remote starter is not. It is purely
1-way, rolling code (also called code hopping).
Actually not the same. It (the remote starter RFID over-ride module) is
wired direct into the lines that the RFID receiver uses to feed the vehicle
You need to work on your reading comprehension. Please show me where I said
they were impossible to hack. I said it is a small risk due to the
complexity of doing it vs. otehr easier methods of stealing ones car. Big
difference. Re-read what I wrote and you will see that.
just like the key
so is the honda key - never sends the same code twice. the point is,
you can /predict/ what the next code will be if you have a few samples
from which to establish the pattern.
it /is/ the same - the ecu still has to challenge and then compare the
hash on the response.
apart from problems with engine wear caused by habitual use of remote
starters, i mentioned security, a point on which you've taken great
offense for reasons i still don't understand. and you continued arguing
against that point regardless of the facts, finally resorting to what
amounts to "well, if it /does/ get stolen, it's not excluded from your
insurance, so hopefully you're ok".
fact: if you have the gear and the knowledge, and a laptop is not
exactly an uncommon item, electronic theft is a good deal easier than
mechanical. and remote starters mean the driver doesn't need to be
present or challenged.
end of story.
| found bad solder
| joints exactly as pictured on several web sites.
My '90 accord 's main relay ( made by Mitsuba ) has always
been fine, now 85k+ km.
| Bought a new one for $40
Sold in msia @ M$85 ~= US$24.28
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