Do I really need new timing belt on '03 TL w/ only 23.8K miles??

cameo wrote in news:jqqt34$svf$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

The dealer adds about a 60% markup to the original purchase price when they buy OE parts from Honda. That's where your full-retail price comes from.

Independent garages generally get between 10% and 25% off full-retail when they buy from the dealer. They add that back when they resell to you, so they can stay competitive with the dealer for parts while still making some money on those parts.

snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Do Honda dealerships also service Acuras? Is there a reason an Acura timing belt replacement would cost more than double a Honda timing belt replacement service, or are they essentially the same thing?

How is replacement of the water pump destructive?

innews: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

North Jersey cost? Hell, car dealers have to pay union scale and the mob shakes them down for protection money and exorbitant trash hauling fees on top of that!

For crying out loud, your government and the gas station lobby prevents y'all from pumping your own gas at a convenience store to keep the price of gas high.

Get in your car and drive south until you're several hundred miles from the nearest union goons and mobsters. Pull into the first Honda dealer you see and get you belt changed for a hell of a lot less. Go get some grits and BBQ while you're waiting for your car. Take the family with you for a nice little mini-vacation

I did call that particular Honda and they would perform the service on my Acura. However, my local Honda dealer does not perform service on Acura , and they get around $700 for the timing belt service.

Perhaps you're onto something about excessive governement fees/taxes, and unions, etc, with regard to high North Jersey repair prices. However, I'm not sure how to prove either way that a mob shakedown is happening as well.

I imagine that what he meant there was that removing the old and installing the new one may result in some collateral damage accidentally. We all experienced that at times when we bothered to get our hands dirty.

Well, then how is it that Majestic Honda can sell a heater core for about $300 that my local dealer sells for around $470? They both sell the same OEM core and I assume even Majestic makes some money on their price.

I've got that 2.25 multiplier from a local radio show host who is himself the owner or head mechanic of a large repair shop. You could tell he was rather uncomfortable by the question and was trying to move to other subject on the air real fast.

Oops, I just realized that my local Honda dealer's part store does indeed charge about 60% above Majestic's online price though I seem to recall some $625 from my last call to them.

This, however, was certainly different with my last mechanic who pretty much wanted to charge the same price as the dealer. That's what caused me to look for another mechanic.

I still don't know then how to interpret the 2.25 multiplier I've heard from that radio show host. He did wave me off by saying that it was a pretty complicated formula but was the industry norm. It's clearly not a subject mechanics like their customers to inquire about.

cameo wrote in news:jqr9uv$giq$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

$470 retail suggests a $282 purchase at a 60% markup, leaving a margin of $18 if they sell to you at $300. Perhaps Majestic's volume with Honda is higher than most, so they get a discount?

Volume-shippers also get /substantial/ discounts from their carriers, so they may be making the margin back by marking up their shipping. One of our (commercial) customers pays much less than half to ship stuff what you'd pay if you walked in off the street. Or did you pay $300 /total/, excluding only taxes?

A 60% markup equates to a multiple of 1.67.

A multiple of 2.25 suggests they're buying the part for $209. Possible, but I think unlikely.

That 2.25 may be true for aftermarket parts, but my experience says it's unlikely for OE parts, especially those sold by an independent garage. With a few exceptions, independents can't get hold of OE except through a dealership.

cameo wrote in news:jqr971$ckc$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

Well, that would be true for ANY auto-servicing, no?

I think if you're savvy enough to successfully install a timing belt -- which is NOT a beginner's job -- then the added complexity of a water pump shouldn't make much difference.

Me, I'd rather spend the extra $100 in order to know for sure I won't have to tear all the way back in again for the sake of a stupid coolant leak. The last pump I replaced felt like new. But what was it going to feel ike halfway to the next change? I didn't care to take the chance.

Most of the equipment I use in my profession is equipped with timing belts....from extruder drives to servo driven down stream equipment. I still have belts in service that have been installed for 10 years and more that are fine (visually inspected every 6 months). Some of them run 24 hours a day, 5-6 days a week (much more than one would drive a car though at a lower RPM, of course). This is the norm, though I have seen 2 of them go within 12 months. Those were from poor installation (that guy didn't last long after that).

I'm at 7+ years now on my Honda, but only 92k miles. Even with what I've experienced in an industrial setting, I'll probably change it out sometime this year.

I did have an older '82 accord that had the belt break (bought it used as a used clunker just as a temp get around vehicle), but that belt was the original and it was at 15+ years old when it broke.

I think your car may be 60 months or 60,000 miles/100,000km

No, you've got that 6 upside down: the service manual is clear about this: it's every 90K miles, or 144K kms. But earlier I did miss the heading line with the time period and now I see that it has that down to

The older I get, the more things I miss. :-(

what I saw was supposedly the Official 94-97 Accord Maintenance Schedule From the official Honda Shop Manual, Honda Motor Co., Ltd. Service Publication Office. It says 60/60. I found it at:

That's strange. I've never seen such frequent intervals before. If anything, I've seen less frequent ones than mine. The Service Manual I have is published here in the US, not in Japan and does not include figures for European models.

If you had a 9.5 year old car with only 23.8K miles would you get the timing belt done this year?

there may be some difference between auto and industrial use - the belts used on cars don't have the same load throughout their usage speed, and their speed varies a lot.

most vehicle timing belts break at or close to idle, not at freeway speeds. reason is that at low speed, the hydrodynamic oil film on the cam lobes breaks down and allows metal-to-metal contact. once that happens, the force required to rotate increases significantly as you get micro-welding of surface asperities. if the motor were to constantly run at higher rpm's it would undoubtedly last longer.

it's also worth noting that modern auto timing belts are typically much better than the stuff that was available 20 years ago. hence they last longer even in an identical application.

i don't know where they got those manual pages because i have the accord shop manual and they're not what i recall from my copy. i need to dig it out.

but it is true that different vehicles have different belt change intervals specified. not all belt types or manufactures are equal either.