On Sat, 10 May 2008 00:19:20 -0600, Bow Wow wrote:
I'm old-school. I drive a car 1500 miles and then do the first oil change.
Then I do the next one at 3000 miles, and every 3-3500 after that.
I also had 3 cars go over 250,000 miles without burning oil.
Five-hundred miles is approx 8 hours. I would prbably go pretty easy for
the first 1,000 miles, secondary roads and short stretches on the highway
around cities. This will do two things; allow the machine to run at
something other than wide open, and force variations in load and speed
like the manual says to do.
It seems I can tell when a car was broken in properly or not. On cars I
had had new, they don't tend to develop 'notches' at certain speeds. By
this I mean, on cars other than ones I bought new, I can notice that the
car seems to hit a stride ~45-50 MPH, and another ~70 MPH. What I assume
is that the person that bought the car new had two driving modes:
secondary roads (45 MPH) and highway (70 MPH). I have noticed this on a
few used cars I have owned.
On cars I bought new and broke in properly, there weren't any 'notches',
everything was fairly even across the range.
You will hit speeds and conditions on any car, no matter how it was broken
in due to engine and mechanical efficiencies. On most 4 cylinder Toyotas I
have owned, they seem to hit their stride 70~75 MPH, since I assume this
is the engine's most efficient mode. I have noticed this on 4 or 5 Toyotas
I have owned. Always got the best economy at about 72 MPH in 5th gear.
Of course, with newer cars and a V6, things are different now, but I would
still take it pretty easy for the first 1500 miles, and stop and have the
How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had
anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a
particular speed cause this?
I think you don't know what you're talking about.
From the owner's manual for a 2008 Pilot:
"Help assure your vehicle’s future
reliability and performance by paying
extra attention to how you drive
during the first 600 miles (1,000 km).
During this period:
Avoid full-throttle starts and rapid
Do not change the oil until the
scheduled maintenance time.
Avoid hard braking for the first
200 miles (300 km).
Do not tow a trailer.
You should also follow these
recommendations with an
overhauled or exchanged engine, or
when the brakes are replaced."
Note what the manual says about the first oil change.
what??? read the manual??? no freakin' chance buddy! we're all going
to have a retardation contest here on usenet and take the words of
nameless idiots with our new multi-thousand dollar investments, not the
experts that researched, designed and manufactured the freakin' thing!
imagine these guys in aerospace: "yeah, but this guy said those cracks
a few actually. 306k was my highest [verifiable] mileage. but wtf has
that got to do with inability to read manuals???
"about the same"??? you want to be imprecise so you can claim whatever
you want that way??? or are you saying "about" you don't actually know
the details??? [rhetorical]
it's untrue if you think there are no changes - there are small but
subtle changes to lip profiles that help with power and economy, and
there are improvements to honing processes giving better cylinder wall
finish, and quality.
Some people develop superstitions, and live their lives by those.
Car owners are especially susceptible.
Go by your owner's manual. Things do change over time, and things that
were appropriate back then don't apply now. But you'll never get over
The cars I have had new and have broken in myself have not had this
problem. The couple of cars I bought used that do this have a tendancy to
'settle' around 45 and 65 or so. The 7 new cars I broke in didn't do this.
And two of them were identical models.
And my Supra seems to settle around 60. It's a Canadian car, and whne I
say 60 I mean 60 KmH.
But, you never think I know what I'm talking about anyway, so I just
consider the source.
I think I've probably broken in more new cars than you have.
The manual also probably recommends changing the oil every 7.500 miles
whether it needs it or not.
I've had a half dozen successes with my method, and was trying to pass on
*experience* to the OP. Don't like it? Don't follow it! Simple!
Seven and a half miles? Gee, my mechanic is more than 7.5 miles away.
So was I, which is, follow the manual, not some guy you don't know on
It has long been rumored that there are people who are totally clueless
twits who write on the internet.
So which makes more sense: To follow the advice of the people who
actually build the cars or someone who may or may not know what they are
You just gotta argue about everything, don't you?
The guy's not talking about a gentle break in, he's talking about a coast
to coast trip with a new vehicle, presumably as quickly as possible.
I gave him the benefit of my experience. You, as usual, offer nothing.
Matter of fact, I can't for the life of me ever remember when you actually
did something other than question and obfuscate what others have said.
If you leave tomorrow, I don't think you'd be missed. Don't let the door
Presumably? Well, considering that the guy posted about two different
vehicles on two different newsgroups, I don't think there is a real
Bull! I gave him the benefit of *my* experience and knowledge. And my
experience is that these trucks and cars are changing and evolving over
the years. There are newer and better oils, better manufacturing and
machining methods and better ways to assemble the engines, resulting in
different break-in requirements.
The people who build the cars know more than you or I.
What applies to cars made 10, 20 or 30 years ago may or may not apply to
cars made today.
You must have a very limited life.
However, questioning is far better than giving out-dated and incorrect
advice, as you did.
You know, there is something called a filter, aka, kill file that comes
with newsgroups. Please feel free to put me on yours.
IIRC, the original post said he was thinking about taking delivery of a
new (whatever). I would extrapolate the choice is between a Highlander and
a Pilot, similar vehicles, although I believe the Highlander is slightly
Thanks. I'll stick to my way. Works for me.
Pistons and rings still slide against cylinder walls. That still happens.
And that's not including other systems in the vehicle.
Who says it's incorrect? The manual said basically the same thing 7, 12,
14 and 20 years ago. I was pointing out generalizations for breaking in
any car, and as someone pointed out, they're still listed in the manual:
avoid abrupt starts and stops, vary the speed, etc. Basically what I told
the OP. With the exception of changing the oil at 1,500 miles. That's the
only real departure I took from the manual. Unless the engine has a
special 'break in' oil like a Honda, I don't see what the big deal is.
What it really comes down to is driving the car 3,000 miles pretty much at
As usual, a molehill turns into a mountain with you.
but you don't know that! all you know is that honda and toyota tolerate
you - they survive in spite of your behavior, not because of it!!!
"the deal" is that the engine needs to build up an amorphous
carbonaceous layer on the cylinder walls. you will have seen that when
taking the heads off engines. what you probably haven't done though is
do a micro hardness test on it to find that's it's very hard and that it
gives a good, low friction working surface for the cylinder wall. for
the engine to last well, that layer needs to build up quickly, but not
excessively. the best way to do it is to have a "dirty" oil keep
circulating fine soot/combustion product particles. hence, if you
change the first oil too soon, you delay build-up and the wear rate
stays higher, longer than it otherwise would.
it's neither mountain nor molehill - it's just plain ignorant. if you
asked questions, that would be different. but instead you just voice
underinformed opinion - it's utterly worthless.
On Sun, 11 May 2008 21:20:46 -0700, jim beam wrote:
Are you a fool, or what?!?!?
I guess the next new car I get, I'll screech the tires out of the
dealership and then take it for a 100 mile rip on the freeway at 125 MPH,
just because the Owner's Manual doesn't say not to do it.
Actually, it does say not to, but according to you, I guess it would be ok.
I like to be gentle on new mechanical components, and not take them to the
'recommended limits' in the first 1,000-1,500 miles.
My God, are you obtuse.
After about 1 million miles split between 4 cars, I think my method works
The OP asked about taking a new car on a 3,000 mile trip, and if it was a
bad idea. What I didn't say was, yeah, I think it's a bad idea, but if I
had to do it, here's how I'd do it. If it's a Honda with the 'special
break in oil', then yeah, skip the 1,500 oil change. If it's a Toyota, I'd
change the oil. I have changed the oil. I've been rewarded with car that
have lasted me up to 20 years.
You appear to be an Educated Fool, merely for arguing.
If you had said, "Hachi threw in a oil change that I would skip", OK, then
I guess it doesn't need to be done. As far as an 'amorphous layer', it'll
get there, don't worry.
no, i'm a pedant with a low bullshit tolerance level.
actually it does. "Avoid full-throttle starts and rapid acceleration."
remember? [you should, you quoted it.]
don't put false words in my mouth.
based on what? the owners manual? or your own research?
i may indeed be. but relative to what?
how many cars??? pick a story and stick to it dude. if you want us to
believe your numbers.
so it's wrong to correct misconception and bullshit?
as you'd know if you'd have bothered to read the owners manual!
the point is, you're just repeating useless garbage with no purpose. in
fact, it may even be harmful garbage. so, again, why do you do it? you
can't back any of that stuff up - you're just repeating what you heard
from some dude who heard it from another dude - and so on back to
whenever. if you don't have definite knowledge, or you haven't studied
this stuff, you're just wasting electrons and muddying the water.
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