Well, my point is that the sludging occurred when following the factory
recommended interval. Then it came out: y'all weren't changing your
oil often enough. Then it all came out: Toyota screwed up in the
design of that engine.
If we can't trust the factory engineer recommendations from Toyota, then
it's in our own hands to determine what a comfortable interval would be
to try to eliminate such problems.
that's not strictly true. it's the manual "as revised". each time a
tsb is issued, it's what's in the tsb that prevails. just like a
service pack or software update for your computer.
if you don't want to follow the manual's service schedule, do oil
analysis. all this blind gut stuff is utterly retarded. so is never
checking the simple stuff that can be easily checked come to that, and
looking inside the rocker cover is hardly difficult to do.
as for toyota sludging, it wasn't /every/ toyota that did it, just a
very small subset of users that would literally drive around the block,
then stop. repeatedly. if the oil never reached operating temperature
but was constantly loaded with condensates, i'm sure pretty much any car
would be susceptible. and you then have to ask, to what degree does the
engineer have to anticipate statistical outliers?
depends on where the sludge is prone to build up.It might be in a place not
visible without dismantling the motor or borescope inspection.
isn't it common knowledge that oil change intervals depend on a particular
car's usage? Like if one only uses their car for short trips,or infrequent
usage,oil/filter should be changed -more often- than cars used more
IMO,an auto manual's procedures are based on AVERAGE use/average
conditions,not extremes either way;heavier or lighter use.
That's all the manufacturer/engineer can reliably provide.
After that,it's the end user and their knowledgeable mechanics that must
make a determination based on the particulars.
Otherwise,it's just a guessing game.
More frequent oil/filter changes may be playing on the safe side,at a
higher cost.It's a trade-off.
that's right - and most manuals have two schedules: normal usage and
"severe". with those, you try to provide for what is statistically most
common. but there are always a few statistical outliers and you simply
cannot economically allow for them all.
the famous oil sludge problem for instance is i think only "famous"
because it was documented on the web. i've seen situations like that a
couple of times in my past, and neither have been toyotas, so while that
story may be dramatic, it's not representative of toyota in particular.
again, who cares about statistical outliers? you /could/ provide racing
grade "dry" lubrication for all engines, with a 200 liter oil tank,
marine grade large and small particulate filters, and computerized
on-board chromatography... that should pretty much cover all usage
scenarios, but it's not reasonable for all but a literal handful of
users, and even then, they are the types that would still have problems
through ignorance and neglect.
ever heard the expression, "ignorance is temporary, stupid is for ever"?
here's how it works: you use oil analysis to determine the oil change
interval for your regular driving pattern. if analysis determines that
you can extend your change interval to 12k miles, for instance, you get
to save money on your previous change history.
math [and saving money] doesn't get much simpler.
On Sun, 18 May 2008 08:41:30 -0700, jim beam wrote:
Thanks, but I like to /drive/ my cars. This means, I buy cars with some
pep and are fun to drive, and I drive them that way, and I don't want my
cars (like the VW I had that had oil pressure problems after being driven
to MAss from NJ by Who Knows Who) to spend a lot of time on the lift at
the dealer. My oil analysis is this: at 3,000 miles I take a look at it.
If it's black, it goes.
Exactly..its sad, but I really expect no different...its only a damn car
company, fer krist's sake.
I aint mad at all...I just think its time *you* chilled out with the whole
manual thing when someone asks a question or wants to get a discussion
Are you asking me or telling me what you think I'm gonna do?
Dude...I will change my Honda's oil when the maintenance minder says so, or
about every 5000k...whichever comes first and whatever I feel like doing at
If the MM comes on, I'll change it for sure, and soon too.
If it doesn't, and 6000k is rolling around, then I will most likely change
the oil myself "early".
It couldn't be any easier, or more simple.
And I have *no* plans on keeping my '08 Accord for more than 10 years *MAX*.
I'm not a kid and will most certainly purchase another car before I have to
worry about getting 200,000 miles on mine.
Well..you can clearly see that the info given to us consumers may not always
Therein lies the very reason for the "MM" questions folks have.
Do you understand now?
I used to get a new car every two-three years, not entirely by choice!
In 1980 I bought a Corolla SR5 Coupe. I liked it and kept it 6 years and
244,000 miles. It's replacement was the 'hachiroku' (1985 Corolla GTS
hatch) Magnificent car. Still in my backyard with 259,000 waiting for the
rust work to get done. I have an '05 Scion tC coupe I bought in '06, and
I like that car too.
Add to that an '88 Supra with ~200,000 miles I picked up for $600 4 years
ago, an '89 Mazda 626 in mint condition for $150, and an '89 Subaru Coupe
for winter driving. And I change the oil on all of them at 3,000 miles!
The Scion gets ~7,000 miles a year, the Supra ~10,000, the Mazda ~12,000
and the Subaru ~6,000. I change the oil on the Supra and the Subaru when
they get parked for the season, then I drain that and put in fresh oil
when they come back into service. The Scion gets synthetic every 4,500.
All in all, cheap insurance. I wish I knew what moonbeam has against
3.5 quarts at $3.00 each = $10.50
1 filter = $4.00
call it $15.00 with drain plug washer.
oil analysis costs $22.50 [blackstone].
4 changes at 3000 miles each = $60.00
1 change at 12000 + 1 analysis = $37.50
what? you don't work for nasa???
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