07 Wrangler Unlimited

A good step back in the right direction. This might get me interested in Jeep again. Appearance is OK and the initial utility on the thing looks great.

Same old tired jeep performance (+/- 200hp) yawn, with no other options.

And the Jeep website still looks/works like someone who just got their first computer did it.

A good first step but a lot of ground to make up if they want to sell many vehicles.....

Maybe it's the water in MI that inhibits innovation and creativity. Will the last person out of Detroit please remember to turn the lights off?

Last time I looked Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai were not slowing down any.

Reply to
Brian Foster
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Toledo.

Reply to
billy ray

Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

Have fun with your Kia Sportage, troll.

Reply to
Matt Macchiarolo

D-C America is located in Auburn Hills. The only Big Three HQ in Detroit is GM, in the Renaissance Center downtown. Ford is in Dearborn.

Reply to
Matt Macchiarolo

Thanks Matty, first for the geography lesson and then the Kia crack. Kia BTW is making pretty damn good vehicles. You just go right ahead and underestimate them, like you did Toyota. Just keep buying jeeps, Dr Z loves ya :)

Reply to
Brian Foster

Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

Now Bill..... South Korea was never our enemy...

Reply to
billy ray

I don't underestimate foreign brands, I just choose not to buy them, not out of Bill's not getting over the war, but just because I prefer to support American companies. Out of every car I or my wife has ever owned or leased, only two were foreign brands (Toyota and Honda, both the wife's)

Her mid-90's Toyota Avalon was OK, but it was too small for me, and the OEM tires had chunks out of them (Pirellis, I think) after 20,000 miles. Her Honda Odessey from a couple years ago came right off the lot with a severe oil leak, a quart every hundred miles or so, and a puddle every time we parked it. The dealer couldn't fix it in four tries, their attitude was Hondas never have defects like this...so Honda ended up buying it back under Michigan's lemon law.

I never said Kia made bad vehicles. I just said have fun in yours. I'll have fun in my Jeeps and Fords, and when you need to be pulled out of a small mudhole I might even help you out, because I'm that nice a guy.

Reply to
Matt Macchiarolo

How many Jeep competitors offer a 6-speed? Hummer, maybe? Dr. Z's German tranny seems to work rather nicely with it -- much better than whatever they were using in my old Wrangler "X". The new shift pattern does take some getting used to, though. If you go too far and hit "R" instead of "6", you get this interesting grinding sound. Did that maybe three times until my aim improved :-)

I can see many improvements in just 2-3 years. Now for 2007, I'm not so sure. It's all in what you're looking for, I guess.

Mike '06 TJ Sport

Reply to
Mike Albanese

Hey folks, I prefer to buy American and even local whenever possible too. And for every story about poor quality, workmanship, service that you can give me about a foreign make/model would you believe I would not have to look far/long to come up with two involving a domestic make/model. I just got a class action suit mailing last week involving brakes on my old Grand Cherokee. They sucked and enough people got tired of it and DC's ambivalence to it, so they decided to take legal actions. That seems to be the only thing that gets Detroit's (I use Detroit to characterize all US automakers) attention.

I just got back from a trip to Detroit area. I've been in the Food and Beverage business for a long time and I've had Detroit in my territory (on and off) for many years. The economy is still in the crapper and the number of people leaving the area continues to grow. The auto industry is the major employer and they are in BIG trouble and dragging the entire area down with them. It's all well documented over the last decade or so. My concern is that they just don't seem to get it. They keep putting out products that are old technology and lack innovation. And there is no excuse for it other than the culture of the industry that I can see.

I like to buy American as much as anyone. I also need to be realistic when it comes to putting $20-$40K or more into something I buy or lease. That still represents a lot of dough to me so I feel it is my responsibility to buy the best product I can for the money. I get mad at Detroit when they choose (and that's what it is, a choice) not to be competitive with other world wide auto makers.

What is the market looking for right now? SUVs? High Mileage? or even better Alternative fueled vehicles? So why do we keep getting the same old tired things from Detroit. The Wrangler Unlimited caught my eye because it looked different. Upon further review, there are some differences (and they are good) but there are way to many of the old ways in there.

Out of the box thinking try this one: Who has the money? Oil Companies right. Who is hemorrhaging money and looking at a very bleak future? Detroit right.

Both industries need each other and both have significant headquarters in the US. So why are we not seeing a joint venture between GM and Exxon/Mobil instead of GM and Renault?

Lets get US automakers and US oil companies to work together for the quantum leap to the next vehicles and fuels for them. That is your next space race and cold war right there boys and girls.

I'll go now, I've ranted enough. That damn class action suit letter pissed me off. Then I look at the new Jeep and I just get pissed again.

Reply to
Brian Foster

Since I live here, I probably have a better picture of the situation than someone outside looking in. Yes, Michigan's economy is in the crapper, and will be for several more years. I think you would be remiss if you didn't also implicate the UAW, because for the last twenty years or so they have been able to bleed the Big Three dry, but of course the Big Three let them, especially in the 90's boom. But what's worse is the unions, which are necessary in protecting worker's rights, have gone way beyond that. They have fostered an entitlement mentality in the workforce, when people get accustomed to getting paid $20/hour for tightening down a few bolts on a line. And often the union reps encourage or turn a blind eye to blatant productivity losses in the name of protecting the union...line workers setting up a grill in the plant and selling hot dogs, sitting around in the break room being paid full rate for half a shift because the quota has been met.

I own a store in Livonia, and at any given time I employ about a dozen workers. My key staff are great, but we;ve had some people move on so we hung a Now Hiring sign out front for a couple weeks We were getting 10-15 applications a day, and most of them we had to round-file because few applicants had the skills we needed. We're retail so we don't start people at $15/hour (we do start them way above minimum wage) but the prevalent attitude among many of the applications, and even some we hired, is that it's OK to call in sick if you don't feel like working that day, or we can stand around if we can't find anything to do. In general, the work ethic here sucks. As an employer, I can't afford that kind of lack of productivity.

You get mad too easily, have a beer.

I would love a diesel Wrangler.

Once the Big Three get thinking globally within the American market they will come back.

What makes you think Exxon Mobil wants to help GM make cars that use less gas?

You've read Tom Friedmann, I see. If we can get a "Moon Shot" type declaration and national commitment from our sitting President, it might happen. But he's in bed with Big Oil so probably not.

Like I said, have a beer.

Reply to
Matt Macchiarolo

Ya know, some trolls just aren't even worth the effort to suggest they go mate with themselves.

Brian Foster proclaimed:

Reply to
Lon

Didja know that Kia means sh*t in one Asian language? Wonder what Brian Foster means in Swahili.

Brian Foster proclaimed:

Reply to
Lon

Reply to
Matt Macchiarolo

Matt, Livonia is a great town, I usually stay there when I come to town. I also like Ypsilanti because of Eagle Crest GC, but that's for another newsgroup..

Unions are a huge problem. Who's going to change that? The Unions? I think Not, it'll more likely be the auto makers.

I do like to have a beer, so much so, that I started to brew my own. Just getting started on that (2nd stage fermenting my first batch right now) so I'll let you know how that goes.

What makes me think Exxon/Mobil and wants to help GM sell less gas? Well that's the kind of thinking we are talking about isn't it. I don't think it's a question of if we will become less dependant on oil but rather when we will. So whatever that next energy source is, the guys pumping the oil and building the cars should be leading the way at finding it and exploiting it. Or else they will be like the dinosaurs.

I'm a big Tom Friedman fan and I also like W a lot too. Yeah that makes me pretty conflicted. I don't think the government has to mandate a national commitment for there to be one. It just takes some business leaders with vision. See Bill Gates and Michael Dell.

So why don't you have a diesel option for a Wrangler? Hmm, I see what you mean, I'm going to go see how my homebrew is doing (watch the bubbles).

Good on you.

I maybe back in Detroit to work on my project soon

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Reply to
Brian Foster

Probably, Enlightened one

Lon, or should we just call you "the interpreter" now? Do you know of what "Asian lanquage" you speak of? I'm betting not...

Reply to
Brian Foster

Lon, it's pretty obvious that your family tree has some short branches. Perhaps some of your ancestors did indeed "mate with themselves".

You wouldn't be from Tennessee by any chance would you?

Reply to
Brian Foster

In English it is an acronym for Killed In Action which is probably as bad a choice as trying to Novas in Mexico..

Reply to
billy ray

Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

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