Detroit Vs Japan

Bill, you said I couldn't give an example. Citing another example doesn't take away my example. I win! __ Steve .

Wow... gotta say I agree with you there. Well, on the absurdity of unions part anyway. Generally mob-style organizations -- will strong arm any business who doesn't want to play right out of town. Seen it done.

Nope, it was the oldest vehicle on the lot at the time. The next oldest ironically enough was a beat to hell Hornet station wagon and the Benz had it by ten years probably.

Diesel Benzes probably have the highest survival rate in their class, along with old Volvos. I see 240D's and 300D's all the time and I don't see American cars of that era (in my area) any more frequently despite their vastly higher sales. The only old cars, aside from Sunday only street rods and muscle cars and a rare antique, I see out here are the Benzes and Volvos, an occasional VW Beetle, or very occasionally a 70's Jag or Roller. There's _one_ four door mid-60s Chrysler down the street owned by a realtor and he occasionally takes house shoppers out in it-it has a late model electronic crate engine and four speed TF in it. That's it. It's late model all the way otherwise-Hondas are the main car, SUVs and minivans are the most common vehicles.

Please post EXACTLY what Exodus 22:18 says in your bible.

If you'll carefully notice, I did not say 'witches'....

Bill: "No no! 'E's pining!"

Me: "'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!"

The parrot's dead, Bill... and your Bible is full of sorceresses, and worse. __ Steve .

Bill, you said I couldn't give an example. Citing another example doesn't take away my example. I win! __ Steve .

There are unlicensed plumbers working out there? Do the local inspectors' offices know about this? That wouldn't be legal at all. Even apprentices are licensed.

You obviously don't understand how a trade union works, either. It's not like shop unions. It's nothing more than a labor pool. All the union guys work for the union. We don't work for the companies...sort of like working for a temporary agency. This arrangement allows companies to easily pick up a qualified tradesman they can feel comfortable about without any overhead of hiring through a human resources department process and they can dump him off when the work slows with ease. On the non-union side, they pay the apprentices to go to school (union has their own school), tend to keep employees around when work slows, and have to go through vigorous hiring practices to get new help. It's just a different arrangement. We can't really cry to our union about our jobs like UAW workers can. It's not the same. If you're a bad worker, you'll get laid off just the same as non-union.

Back to dealership mechanics... You must know some pretty bad ones, or none at all. I've personally known some really good ones, and, yes, they make similar money like I pointed out.

there.  Well, on the absurdity of unions

Like I said before: Businessmen negotiate contracts for a living. If they can't negotiate a favorable deal with a union, then they don't need to be in business at all because they're weak.

Maybe I am missing something, but what does any of this bull shit have to do about Jeeps?

Do you just get your jollies by seeing your name in print or something?

Sure seems like it.

Do you even own a Jeep? You have 'never' posted about it or Jeeps, just off topic crap.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Ruel Smith wrote:

unions

any

Yeah, 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0. I've owned it since brand new in Sept.

1993. 146,000+ on the odometer, only mildly off roaded.

No, I simply responded to the Detroit vs. Japan thing, and response after response has led to this. Has this thread gotten out of hand and off-topic? Probably so. Somewhere in this thread mentions of the UAW being the bad guys and bad mouthing dealership mechanics really ticked me off.

If you don't like the posts, anyhow, don't read them. Simple enough.

And is this based on guys working in a gas station too? I'm telling you that I worked as a car salesman at a Pontiac/GMC dealership (now Buick too) around 1997 to 2000 and I personally knew mechanics that were making $17/hr flat rate back then, and I know their rate has gone up since then. Now, not every week, but there were quite a few of them, these mechanics would turn in excess of 70 book hrs. and many times near 80. What I did, and I stated so in a followup post, was assume these figures were constant, which of course they aren't as mechanics vary their turned-in hours each week, and I'm pretty sure that these same mechanics are making at least $20/hr on flat rate with adjustments to their rate since 8 years have gone by (they made that rate in 1997). I have idealized the math, assuming the most hours on a weekly basis. Now, simple math gave me that figure.

Reality is that you have to be a veteran mechanic with all the proper certifications (there are even manufacturer certifications such as GM requires only Duramax certified mechanics to work on Duramax equipped trucks) working in a dealership, and not some BP Procare station or hole in the wall shop to make that kind of hourly rate. It is not uncommon for such a mechanic to make in excess of $20/hr. flat rate in a dealership. I know this to be true because I personally knew several of the mechanics in the dealership very well. Also, as hours output during the week vary, and not just based on the mechanic's ability, but other variables such as service department traffic, they won't be turning those hours each week. There may even be some weeks when they work 40 hrs. and only turn in 40 hrs.. So chances are they'll never see the idealized $80 grand a year. Mechanics pay is based on output, and not hrs. worked, and is what the flat rate system is all about.

These mechanics usually have $25,000 in tools and a $10,000 toolbox to put them in. If they only made $36,000 a year like your information suggests, I seriously doubt they'd be spending as much buying premium tools like Mac, Matco, and Snap-On.

I logged on this morning and only found 'one' Jeep post, the rest was all bullshit!

This group does have a formal Charter. If you don't like it don't read/post here, simple enough eh. Otherwise the BS will take over the group.

ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Gents, this group does have a formal Charter, how about dropping all the bullshit and get back to posting about Jeeps?

The Charter is located here:

ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Lee Ayrt>

Tell that to the person that started the crap. I only responded.

You don't think defending American made vehicles has anything to do with Jeep? Are you completely stupid?

Sure, there have been some side issues in this thread, but I only responded and voice my opinion. Sorry if you don't like it.

ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys

Did you promote yourself to newsgroup police, or something?

Jeep = American icon truck/suv/automobile, American made and assembled in Toledo, OH.

Auto dealership mechanics = automobile/truck