Liberty CRD

It is not legal in some US states, if it is the one I am thinking about with the lights up top. In some states, the lights can be no more than a certain height and the roof lights are not legal.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

John Roche wrote:

Mike, sounds like you're thinking of the Liberty Renegade. The CRD is the new Common Rail Diesel, which AFAIK is not allowed in some states due to emissions rules and/or diesel fuel quality.

You are correct, that is what I am thinking of.

Mike

Chuck Bremer wrote:

See fine print at bottom here:

"not be available in California, Massachusetts, Maine, New York or Vermont."

What about my question struck you as a troll post?

If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?

John

L.W. Hughes III (ßill) wrote on 10/6/04 3:17 PM:

Don't take it personally. He thinks he sees troll posts all the time.

-John

Because it's not. Buying the VM engined Liberty might not be a good choice as an offroad vehicle, but because it uses less fuel it's the most socially responsible vehicle Jeep makes. If electronic engines were my forte, I'd have imported one of these from Italy or the UK a long time ago. Most of VM's engines have a hell for stout reputation and are sold in many different car brands in Europe.

This is the same technology as the Duramax uses. The Duramax is the quietest running smoothest and least stinky diesel on the US road so far...but it's way too big for a Jeep. Half a Duramax, particularly with an aluminum block to match its heads, would be a really great engine.

Common rail technology was invented by the Italians and it's become the dominant thing everywhere. Its only disadvantage is that like all the gas engines today it's electronic. Box goes, you walk home. The old diesels were fully mechanical. They would get you back electrics or no electrics. But their power was nothing like the new engines, which are beating gasoline for power to weight.

I like diesels, but I cant think of one that beats petrol power to weight. torque to weight maybe, but not power.

Dave Milne, Scotland '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

You are not figuring Power to Weight to Time. An 855 Cummins will run-judging by genset ratings-at 300 hp for somewhere between thirty to fifty thousand hours TBO.

An 828 hp Chevy 'Rat' "motor" will run at this power setting for...I don't know but seriously doubt ten hours. Maybe not one. It will probably run at the aforementioned 300 hp for a thousand.

When you start figuring the weight of the engine itself plus the fuel to run it any given number of horsepower-hours, the Chevy looks quite poor indeed. BSFC of a naturally aspirated two valve pushrod engine running at 2 hp/CID has to be unbelievably bad, for one thing the engine has to be running very rich to keep the exhaust valves from blowing out the ports as molten slag. Water methanol injection could help but figure the cost of methanol and (it had best be) DI or distilled water,to say nothing of weight and supply...

As an aside this 828 hp out of 454 cid is not respectable at all as current F1 engines are making more than that out of a third the displacement. On gasoline.

The biggest modern diesel I could find is the VW Phaeton, which puts out 553 lb/ft torque from about 360 ci, or 1.536 lb/ft per ci in a production car. The hot rod motor puts out 1.281 lb/ft or 83% of the VWs efficiency.

Dave Milne, Scotland '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

You are talking about a truck diesel then,"in-frame" implies liners et al. American car engines generally don't have removable liners and almost always need block machinework, unlike UK and Euro counterparts.

Do you cruise the boulevards of California at an average of 190 to 240 mph? That's the only way you would be using anything remotely like 800 hp in a car or light truck for more than several seconds at a time. Offshore racing boats run big block Chevys wide open at 700-800 hp. An engine probably is good for one race between 'freshenings' and in any event nothing but the block and heads is even going to be considered for more than a few races. Often not even those.

TBO of a Top Fuel or Funny Car engine is five or six seconds. They change pistons and rods between runs.

Put your monster big block up to a 500 kw three phase generator, geared to the correct speed, and hook up a big gas tank. See how long it lasts at 800 hp, or even 600.

Are you saying the Cummins Signature 600 isn't modern? Of course this is not that big either, it might start the starter engine for a Wartsila or Sulzer...

not at all, just that I don't know much about US diesels, so I picked a European one as a comparison.

efficiency.

Slightly OT, but I bought a brand new TJ in '99 in Florida when I was in the Navy and when I went to register it in NY (my home state) the title check or VIN check or whatever said I couldn't register it in NY or CA. Some emissions crap they failed to add, I always supposed (I might add this vehicle has never had engine mech problem one in 5+ years, knock on wood- who needs the enviro crap?).

Matt