Locker abuse

Wow. That's some interesting reading. Thanks for the input. I got a spindle nut socket today and I'll get started on the next non-rainy day we have here in the deep south. TrailMarker.

If you decide to go with axle seals, you need a threaded rod with washers to fit the seal at one end and a bar with a hole or large washer on the outer end.

The seals punch into the diff and have to be drawn back out so the threaded rod is needed to pull them to their seats.

Good luck.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

TrailMarker wrote:

The metal ring on the outer end of the axle shaft is a circlip. Its function is to keep the axle in place laterally.

The metal ring on the outer end of the axle tube could be what's left of the grease seal.

My floating axles have a metal dust shield at the end of the tube on the axle. YJ's and TJ's use a plastic dust shield there. None of the above have any seals in the outer axle tubes. The axles just flop around with the hub removed.

You are talking the stub axle Yoke that goes through the spindle on the other/out side of the u-joint.

The dana 30 front differential only has inboard seals located inside the pumpkin unless it is a vacuum disconnect for those few years in which case it 'still' only has inboard seals, they are just in the shift lock box. Still no seals at the end of the axle tubes for any year of D30 I have seen.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

There is a grease seal that is inside the hub of my CJ. When the hubs are pulled off to expose the bearings, there is a seal that covers the inner bearing. The seal rides on a lip on the outside of the spindle. There is no seal for the axle shaft at this location, but there is a seal for the hub bearings where the hub mates to the spindle.

There is a dust shield that bolts to the spindle. The dust shield is more of a rock guard for the brake rotors though. It appears to me that the shield could be left off and the brakes would still work fine. I am not suggesting removal of this shield, but if the shield were to become damaged, it could be removed as part of a field fix, and replaced when the vehicle eventually made it back to the barn. When the shield is removed, the spindle can then be removed with a pursuader of any of several different designs -- I use a rubber mallet, some guys use a block of wood and a hammer. Inside the spindle is a needle bearing that the axle shaft rides on. There is no seal here.

My CJ is different. The needle bearings inside the spindle have both a dust seal and a grease seal.

Now to get where Bill and I are talking, you follow the outer yoke that goes through the spindle to the u-joint heading toward the center of the Jeep. Once past the u-joint, there is a metal dust seal on the axle with a rubber o-ring on some, then the axle continues on to the grease/oil seal a foot or so farther at the pumpkin.

From the u-joint to the pumpkin, there is a metal dust cover (plastic on YJ's and TJ's, 'this' is the cover we are all going on about), the axle, then the seal, then the bearing, then the gears.

You are talking the outer axle stub or yoke.

You are more full of shit than a Christmas Turkey. A hub is a hub, and it is not the axle tube.

The hub has two bearings inside, and the inner bearing also has a grease seal adjacent to it. This has nothing at all to do with the axle shaft, except that the axle shaft causes the hub to turn if the hub lock is engaged and 4WD is selected on the tcase. Otherwise, the hubs turn because the ground is going by.

The OP was not very clear on what he was talking about when he wondered about the ring on the end of something. I took a wild guess that he was talking about the snap ring (which I called a circlip) on the end of the axle shaft where the locking hubs engage. There is also a ring that is inside the hub. This ring is really a seal, but if the rubber was gone from the seal, a ring would be left.

What I was wondering about is, where in Hell did you come up with an analogy about thatever is inside a YJ hub and axle? The topic is clearly an '85 CJ7. In the case of the CJ, the hub is also the brake rotor, but I was trying really hard to not confuse you with that much detail.

I am not remembering that very clearly. I remember the needle bearing vividly, but the other parts are not coming to mind.

Yes, that is true. Follow the spindle going the other way, into the hub. There is a seal inside the hub where the inner bearing is. That is the seal I was talking about.

Got it. This is pressed onto the axle shaft, isn't it. Not pressed really hard, but it comes out with the shaft, and can be moved from one shaft to another when the shafts are replaced. Right? I think there might even be a felt ring on this part.

Yes, I am. That is where I thought the OP was having questions. His goal is to replace the u-joints, so I was only thinking of stuff that he would encounter on the way to the u-joint. This includes the snap ring on the end of the axle shaft (which might not even be there), the spindle nuts and retaining rings, the hub with its bearings and seal, the spindle itself with its needle bearing, and the axle. I did not include the brakes, which obviously will be along the path to the object of his desire.

So.... Your axle tube, everyone else would calls a spindle?

And where did the Original Poster write of "circle clip"?"From: "TrailMarker" Tue 3:47 PMSubject: Locker abuse Well, I've had my front ARB a few weeks now. Yesterday, I actually needed it for the first time. I was climbing a steep rock hill. And so, naturally, I just busted my first front axle U-joint. I bought a H-D replacement - but hopefully this won't make some more expensive part the weak link. I'm looking for advice on the replacement job. This is for an '85 CJ-7 Dana 30 - passenger's side. Are there any gotcha's out there? Does anyone know any special tricks that would help me out? Do I also need to replace any seals or gaskets while I'm at it? One thing that has me worried is the metal "ring" at the outer end of the axle tube. I guess it's just a pressed in seal or guide. It's been knocked loose by the wobbling axle shaft. Does it press in place? Is it just a splash seal? I don't see this part on the exploded views in the books or catalogs I have. I did a Google search and found a couple of posts by Jeff Strickland that make the job sound pretty straight forward. He says

"Remove the hub locks. Remove the brake rotors. Remove the large spindle nuts from inside the spindles and pull the hubs off. Remove 6 nuts holding the dust shield on and remove the shield. Use a large rubber mallet, or a board and a hammer to nudge the spindles off. Slide the axle shafts out and replace the UJoints. Assemble in reverse order. Torque the inner spindle nut to 80 pounds and spin the tire around several times and re-torque. Repeat until you are confident the spindles are tight. Torque the outer spindle nut to 50 pounds. DON'T FORGET the washer between these two nuts, and DON'T FORGET to bend one side over so it will hold the outside spindle nut.; This washer is really a cleverly disguised locking device; use it. Torque the dust shield nuts to 50 pounds."

Is there anything else I need to know? And yes, I still made it up the rock face, and back out through some right slick and tricky stuff in 3-wheel drive. TrailMarker."

That's the puppy! The CJ has a rubber ring on some I have seen and the YJ's and TJ's just have a plastic guard there with no ring at all. The CJ one is pressed on, the YJ one is two halves bolted on.

He could even get a YJ bolt on one if his is pooched likely.

Apples and oranges compared to what you were talking about....

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

No.

TrailMarker, Here is a direct quote (OR CLOSE) from JP magazine June 2005 issue page 48 on differential basics. Q: Can a locker break my Jeep? A: Mr.Reider walks us through it....the greatest torque that can be applied to either wheel with an open diff would be 50% of total power sent to the axle. This is because the spider geas split the torque 50/50., and if one wheel loses traction, then power is lost to the loose wheel and the wheel with traction receives less than 50%. When a locker is installed, no power is lost to the loose wheel, it has to rotate at the same speed as the wheel with traction, and up to 100% of the power can now be directed to the wheel with traction. That can be twice the power the jeep and its components were originally designed for. Meaning the axleshafts or u joints may no tbe strong enough. Upgrade accordingly. That sounds like what you are doing. Just thought you might find that info interesting.

one difference I believe though, is that the stock Jeep is a limited slip, but I'm not sure..

one difference I believe though, is that the stock Jeep is a limited slip, but I'm not sure..

Limited Slip is an option for the TJ, open diffs are stock.

I got the job done yesterday. It went pretty much as described in the other write ups. I test rode it in the rain last night and it seemed fine. As to that thing on the end of the axle tube, I put it back in place, although it isn't attached to anything. It's just riding along on the axle shaft. I'll secure it somehow. I'm considering epoxy or tack welding it, with a leaning toward tack welding. Its function seems to be only to keep large debris out of the axle tube. Thanks for all the help, the links and other input. Now I've got a few months before I really need to replace that leaky heater core. It's bypassed for now. TrailMarker.