Maybe slightly OT. trailer winch wiring

If you use battery cables get the 'heavy duty" ones because the ones they sell for standard duty are already too small....

As for the switch wire gauge...... I don't think the stuff Ford used was that large.... but larger is almost always better

I would use at least 16 ga., more for mechanical strength than for any other reason.

Earle

What 'are' you going on about?

A diode prevents reverse current and eats .8 volts out of the circuit. It has zip to do with surges or spikes or anything else.

You don't see diodes on starter relays nor do you see or need them on winch relays.

Now if you are screwing around with an LED to show the winch is on or off on a single circuit winch like the OP's, then that LED circuit would need two diodes.

Mike

Mike Romain did pass the time by typing:

Some relay coils have internal diodes.

Works like this.

coil __________ground ||( | ||( | ||( V diode ||( | ||(_____|____positive

The diode clips the impulse that comes out when the coil is turned off. It's put in backwards so it won't flow under normal conditions.

A better pic is about halfway down this page

Mike

Bulletsnbra>

That is fine for electronic circuits. A winch uses battery cables and is an 'electric' circuit. No electronics in the circuit to fry. Same for the engine starter. It too uses battery cables and no electronics in the circuit to fry.

Mike

Mike Romain proclaimed:

An electronics engineering education and reasonably successful career, why?

Actually a typical single or parallel junction silicon diode has a typical voltage drop of 700 millivolts across most of the forward bias current range. As for not having zip to to with spikes, you may want to crack an electronics book before going beyond your level of knowledge.

If you open those ISO relays you may find small suppressor resistors on them. Some such as the Bosch round ones have a cheap diode as well.

LEDs are diodes.

If you are switching high current into an inductive load, it helps to have suppression for the inductive kick you get when you drop the current quickly. Sometimes the series inductance of long wiring runs can suppress it enough not to cause damage...or you can cheaply do it with a suppression diode.

If you poke around inside some of the black box devices on an electronically controlled vehicle you'll find suppressor diodes and resistors.

On the starter, the battery itself acts as a very nice suppressor for the inductive spikes you get as you drop the high current.

Mike Romain proclaimed:

Sorry Mike but you are wrong. That winch may be an "electric" circuit but the wiring to it is connected to "electronic" circuits. If the wiring that connects to the winch and winch controls has enough resistance to help hold down the inductive kick OR if it is really low resistance and inductance AND the other ends terminate at your battery, the inductive kicks *may* be suppressed by either crappy cabling or the fact that a battery makes an excellent suppressor of very high currents. However, if the wiring to the winch is wired such that the inductive kick transients can get to anything electronic before suppressed by the battery or similar, you can damage the electronics.

Some folks use diodes....some like me prefer Ovshinsky voltage limiters due to their higher speed, higher operating voltage, generally higher current capability [plus they are only shorting the current above their switching voltage] and their less likelihood to become expensive lumps of conducting silicon if given overcurrentsl

Plus you can wire them to offer protection against "the human factor".

Although it begins to resemble a rube goldbergian kludge, you could tap the high current winding for the winch for the relay drive.

To keep the larger wiring budget cheaper by keeping it short... do the same thing modern vehicles do. Drive the big solenoid with a small automotive relay just like the starter relay that controls drive to the starter solenoid on most vehicles. That way, your high current paths are limited to the winch and a very short hunk of wire to and from the starter solenoids outputs.

Bulletsnbrains proclaimed:

You guys keep talking about electronics..... We are talking winches and starters hooked up to guess what? A battery, which as you say can handle most any spike that comes out of a starter solenoid.

You post like an engineer. I am one of the poor techies that has to fix what you engineers overdesign all to s*it. LOL!

Why in the world would someone want to put a diode in a freaking winch circuit that resides on a trailer with its own independent battery power???

For that matter even trying to find a diode that can handle a winch at full load, well....

I like the KISS principle myself....

Mike

L>

Mike Romain proclaimed:

Yeah, to quote a fellow engineer...involving a major magic smoke situation where someone decided to redesign a power circuit: "One can only admire the creativity of this field solution...."

Available, but the suggested diode is not in series so a cheap GE glass/ceramic is overkill. Or just leave them off and use a staged switch where a commercial auto relay already has everything needed.

If that battery trailer is connected to a main vehicle during operation, then I'd probably add isolation as well.

I like the KISSbutnottooSS.

Mike,

The diode is not in series with the load. It is in parallel with the solenoid, to bleed off the rather large voltage spike that can come off of it, when the power is removed. That spike can bypass the battery and anything else in your system, and operating via Murphy's Law will seek out the most fragile electronic component it can find. Even a vehicle battery does not "instantly" absorb a voltage spike of the kind we are talking about. Otoh, this discussion is probably academic. I haven't cut apart a Ford starter solenoid lately, but it probably has something inside of it to avoid lawsuits from fried stereos and PCMs.

Lon,

I mentioned the isolation switch way back near the beginning of this thread. They are great to have with any trailer electrical system. They give one the option to drive home, in the event the trailer system drains its battery.

Earle

Then the OP has no worries if the Jeep/Ford starter solenoids he bought should already be 'safe' to use on vehicles eh? Especially on his 'Jeep'... ;-\

Mike

Earle Hort>

That's what I'm thinking. But I would definitely wire in an isolation circuit. The kind I am thinking of is diode based, and assures that the trailer electrics only get power from the vehicle alternator, not from the vehicle battery. Any camping supply store should have one in stock, complete with wiring diagram.

Earle

That is a totally different animal and needs to be treated the same as putting a dual battery system into any vehicle. Let's not get the 'engineers' going on that one eh....

As you mention, they make some sweet off the shelf isolators these days that sense the second batteries voltage so it never gets over charged or cooks out the primary battery. I have seen some 'amazing' rube goldburg designs for this that require a University degree and really specialized equipment to set up, come out of 'engineers' posts.... LOL!

Mike

Earle Hort>

Hey thanks group!

The info was informative and was what seemed a great thread considering slightly OT. I'll post photo's of the setup after completion.

Brian