New, Bigger Tires

Hi folks, I have finally worn out the original baby tires on my '02 TJ and it is time to move to bigger tires. I would like to run my reasonings by you with a couple of questions if I may. Thanks.

I know the general consensus of the group is that the BFG AT KO is a real good bet and that is one of my choices. I can get BFG All Terrain T/A KO at BJ's club for US$122.99. With a coupon that runs through this Friday I can also get Michelin X Radial LT there for 125.49. My driving is almost all on the road, often at high speeds and in slippery conditions (wet can get slick on my local roads - I drive extra carefully when wet as I have lost is a couple of times when I did not expect it to on my original Wrangler RTS tires I have on now - a feeling I would like to get away from). I do, however, have a tendency to make a quick left turn when I see that occasional trail and like to have that muddy look and the fun that makes it so. I know I don't need mud tires though, not even close. I seem to be choosing between these two tires as the price is surprisingly the same for me. There are also Dunlop somethings available cheaper, but I have had bad experiences with Dunlops so they are not on my radar.

Now, I have compared the various ratings for performance attributes as follows, with the BFG number first and the Michelin number second: Treadwear 6 - 9 Wet 7 - 7 Quiet 7 - 8 Handling 6 - 7 Winter 9 - 8 Mud 9 - 7

It looks to me that with the Michelin I would have a longer lasting quieter better handling ride at the expense of snow and mud performance. The Michelin tread is more 'road', less knobby than the BFG. For what I normally do it seems to be my choice here. My question is: what are the holes in my thought process, what am I missing? Feel free to fire away, thanks.

Second question: I am going from my baby size 215/75/15 to 31/10.5/15 on the stock rims. I just want to do this because I can. I know about the gear thingy to make the speedometer and plan to do that (thanks to the link from Jerry). No problem there. What I want to ask is about the spare tire. Do I need to buy a fifth tire or can I get away with keeping my small one, considering it to be like one of those space saver tires that normal cars have? If I ever need to use it, will it be a problem in normal 2WD until I get the blown one fixed?

Another perceived observation: since the Michelins are less knobby, I imagine that I might have less problem with the turning radius issue and might not need to add that washer on the steering stops. Might this be so? I am prepared to add the washer, just curious.

If there is anything else I ought to be considering, please let me know about that too, thanks. Best regards, folks, Tomes '02 TJ Sport Former owner of an '87 YJ being _totally_ rebuilt by a friend.

I have 31 x 10.5 x 15 BFG AT's on my '02 TJ. You may have to add a washer or two to the steering stops, but I didn't need to. I have absolutely no rubbing, even at full lock turns while flexing the suspension.

As far as the spare goes, you really need to have a spare that is the same diameter as the other four tires. Either buy five new tires, or buy four new tires and try to find a used spare that is the same diameter. If you buy five new tires and do a five tire rotation every 5000 miles, you'll get 25% more mileage out of the tires.

Tom

Approximately 11/17/03 19:06, Tomes uttered for posterity:

There are 3 models in the Michelin LT X series. All three offer the standard Michelin "driving on rails" feeling and none are as squirmy feeling as the BFG or Goodyears...nor as capable offroad IMNHO. All are very quiet with good treadwear yet also good traction, which is rare.

The A/S is what Ford puts on Exploders. Reasonably good all season and rain tire. Offroad best kept to taking shortcuts across Walmart curbs.

The M+S is quite popular as an all season and still about as quiet as the AS. Works surprisingly well in a coupla feet of wet Sierra snow, haven't tried them on ice. Can handle thin mud and desert goo, but I wouldn't want to risk a long walk in serious muck. Available in several load ranges with heavier duty sidewalls in the heavy ranges. IMNHO is an even better rain tire than the A/S, particularly in gullywashers.

The AT is a bit more butch than the M+S and a good snow tire as well as rain. Still quiet, a bit better in mud, but not a hardcore jeep tire, more of a working pickup farm or logging tread. Heavier sidewalls available in the higher load ranges.

If you see them locally, the Pirelli Scorpion AT is quite similar to the Michelin AT with the wrapped steel tread belts and is available in the same load ranges. Is also very quiet and with the same "on rails" feel of a Michelin on the highway.

Thanks Bill, that is a good perception, although I did just a little bit when I mentioned the 'left turn' down some local 'trails'. Not any real challenge though. And that's about my percentage too. Much appreciated, Tomes

Thanks Lon. This is good information along the lines of what I was seeking. Much appreciated.

Folks, I also posted this in alt.jeep-l and over there it was perceived that I was a speed maniac from my post. Just so you folks know that is not the case, having a YJ before my current TJ, so if you had that thought, don't worry, I am a safe driver. Just looking for the right tire at the right price for my needs. It looks like I am leaning towards the Michelin LT, but need to go see which of the 3 subsets below are being sold on sale at BJ's.

Anyone have a thought on the fifth tire portion? Need I buy it? I might go with trying to find a used spare, but until then.... Tomes

Whatever tread you go for, I would recommend something in a 225 size for your type of driving, same like Bill was figuring I think.

I have BFG AT's on my Cherokee in the 235 size and the tread is too wide for really good low traction 'on road' situations. They are 8.5" wide. Buggers get up on top and float. They spin way too freaking easy as you even noticed on your 215's. I had another set of similar tread P225's with a 7.5" wide tread and they were far superior, especially off road. They could keep up to my CJ with it's 33x9.5's and 7.5" tread easy. The new BFG P235's have to work a lot harder to keep up, but they sure still can do the job. Same for on road, they can go anywhere, just a lot slower safely than a narrower tire.

I also went from 31x10.5's to the 33x9.5's on my CJ. One was 10" wide, the bigger ones are 7.5" on the tread. Radical difference in handling! I love it!!!

I used to get off work at 4:00 AM before the plows were out and had a 20 mile all uphill drive home. I have had lots of opportunity to compare tire sizes vs traction on Jeeps on the road and I winter run lots on logging trails with some packed by snowmobile. ('dual use in winter' trails only)

Those 10.5's on my CJ7 were downright dangerous at anything over 40 mph in 6" of snow. The 9.5's can keep up to the transport trucks at 55 to

60 mph and still feel strong steering on the road.

You are in the same weight range so the footprint and grab should be close to mine.

You also can use a spare that is close to the same size. Not recommended for too long in 4x4, but it will still slip as needed in snow or dirt to get you home or to a garage.

If you have a locker or limited slip in the rear, you should put the spare on front no matter which tire blew.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Tomes wrote:

I ran MTX's for years. The best tire in rain and on ice and hard packed snow I have ever run, by far. Ok to fair off road, but if you only do the easy stuff they will treat you just fine.

Scott

Approximately 11/18/03 14:36, Tomes uttered for posterity:

Check to see if you have a Discount Tire/America's Tire in your area. They have a $50 rebate on Michelins right now, which would be enough to get me to choose them over the Pirelli. In most areas, you get new free valve stems, and at least at the local shop, they always use torque wrenches on all vehicles, and oddly enough even knew the Jeep spec.

If you do go offroad in slick stuff, the AT in the Pirelli or Michelin may be more to your liking with very little additional noise. The Pirelli still flat spots the belts when cold, but has the toughest sidewalls of the bunch. I really can't tell the difference in driving for the M+S and the AT Michelin on my missus and a friend's ZJ. Only reason I picked up the M+S was that Americas Tire had the heavy load range ones available for under $90 each for a set of 4 on sale at the time. They're ok, and good enough for Sierra snow but I ain't stupid enough to head for a bog with essentially street tires. Great in the rains here tho...particularly on the crappy excuses for Kalifornia highways.

Oh, THAT's why I have been missing them! Thanks for the clarification. Now I see them. Better get the BFGs after all....lol Tomes

Ya know, I was just going out the door to buy the 31X10.5's at BJ's and thought, let me check the group again. Glad I did, with your post Lon, and Mike's below. Now I am going to call up the DT/AT place near me tomorrow and talk to them about all this. I still have until Friday if I want to get the ones at BJ's. Thanks much Lon! Tomes

OK, now I am paralyzed . I was going out to get the 31x10.5s until I read this post here Mike with this sage advice. I guess this is what I was looking for. Thanks.

See, I was wanting to get the bigger 'look', therefore going to 31s as that is as big as I can get without a lift. Now I understand about wide=poorer handling. I did not get the 31x10.5 tonight as a result; I froze. So, how about 31 with narrower tread? Does this exist? Am I thinking down another wrong path? I saw that this BJ's store also has 235x75s. I rolled my baby

215, the 235 and the 31 all next to each other there tonight for a looksee and the 235 is right in between height wise.

So now I'm torn again. I am thinking now that if I can find 31s (for the look and high feel) in a 9.5 or narrower I might be good? Or do I do the

235x75s and be a little bit sad but have better control? Argh.... I just want everything. Like, it's just tires, but tires mean everything.... Mentally locked-up Tomes

Cool. That's what I need, support for my convictions! I intend to look for

31s but skinny. Thanks guys, Tomes