Transmiss Shop: Ethical? What To Do? JGC

First off you shouldn't have paid the bill, now he has your money *and* your Jeep. Insist on a full 12month warranty, in writing, or you will report him to your state's auto repair certification board/atty general.

Realize that "rebuilt" and "remanufactured" are not precisely defined terms, and in many cases they are considered synonyms. The relevant difference appears to be what is contained in your state law. I suggest that you get a copy of that law, to see what you are entitled to. If they agreed to supply you with a "remanufactured" unit for $1,200, then that is what they owe you. Legally, you could probably make them put a "remanufactured" unit in your Jeep, but that might be more trouble than it is worth.

The shop should have called you about the torque converter and flex plate.

It sounds as if the shop manager might have simply confused the terms "rebuilt" and "remanufactured", but if the two terms have legal ramifications in your state, that is a mistake he had no business making. Maybe you can get a refund of the difference?

Earle

Alternatively - have him restore the Jeep to it's previous condition, and give your money back?

J.

Jeep along with all other manufacturers define the following:

Rebuilt means worn parts and seals are replaced old parts still with in tolarances are left in, fluids are refilled.

Remanufactured or Programmed means all parts are repaced to original OEM specifications with any upgrades between model years.

There is a big differance if he had gone to the Dealer it would of cost him about the same $$ and there would be no issues along with getting a programmed transmission (remanufactured).

Coasty

Classic lack of a 'meeting of the minds', which is the cornerstone of any contractural agreement.

Best case scenereo: you agree on the terms, then put it in writing (estimate) and both parties sign and get a copy. All problems can then later be resolved based on that written agreement. Simple in theory, but in the real world, few go through the motions.

The differences between a reman and a rebuild are slight; 'used' is a completely different animal --all water under the bridge now.

Since you've already paid the man, the only thing left to work out is the warranty length. 6-months is not a bad compromise - take it and run. Compromises are all you have left at this point, and technically, he does not have to offer you anything beyond 90 days, so be gracious and thank the man. And get it in writing!!!

I also would not tell prospective buyers about the transmission swap. It will not increase resale value, nor inspire confidence.

Them's my two-cents.

-JD

the warranty length. _

Spoke to the shop manager today and told him I was uncomfortable with signing the work order/invoice form with pick up of the car as it was not consistent with our agreement in 3 areas, and also let him know those 3 areas amounted to a violation of NY State law.

He conceded on 2 of these areas they dropped the ball (not informing me of additional parts, etc.) and revising the warranty after the fact (they want me to come in at the mid-way point of the warranty for a $95 transmission servicing to keep the warranty valid). I did not mention this nugget in my OP however what they laced into the invoice/work order to sign off. It's not an issue of it being good/wise after receiving a transmission job, it's an issue of another term, undisclosed on the front end, and dropped on me at the back end.

I said, "why did you not tell me the warranty required this condition"? He minimized its importance as having to be mentioned on the front end. I told him ethically he should say the warranty requires a $95 check-up servicing midway. If you're going to verbally present it as a carrot....he should disclose this pivotal condition, no? He agreed to eat the $95 mid-way check up. I said, "that's not the point", "the point is being ethically straight and clear up front before the fact" and not allowing for any misunderstanding or misinterpretation, etc.

Which all lead to the major point of concern, a reman transmission versues a rebuild. He parsed words, was extremely defensive but generally spoke to me like I was incapable of discerning the distinction between the two. I had to tell him there are clear distinctions, written in law, between reman and used/rebuild, etc. He finally said to me, "what do you want me to do?", I said, "honor the agreement". He said they don't do remans, only rebuilds.

He said if I want I can have a transmission sent to his shop and he'll install it and all I will pay is labor. I can do that for $550 (get a trans over there delivered). I sent him a fax telling him at this juncture I would agree to the following; Take the Jeep now and Pay him $975 (price he originally quoted for a used trans) + $375 labor + oil. I told him the Torque Converter thing he pulled (by the way, he salvaged and refurbed my original for some other customer or something) was a violation of law but I will meet him 1/2 on that price. In sum with tax the whole job would cost me $1,600. I paid him the $2K with a credit card so I can reverse that.

I told him this was my best effort to make the most out of the situation at this point and not something I would be satisfied with but would deal with. Either this or have all my parts returned, pull out the trans installed, and I will have my Jeep towed else way. And if this was not acceptable we would just be heading into the direction of a legal quagmire, something I want to avert.

So who knows. I think what happend here is the vendor (repair shop) did not appreciate the customer might well know the distinction between "reman" and used and or refurbed or rebuilt. Beyond the mechancial/procedural distinctions, there are legal distinctions, actual State Laws governing this auto repair shops and parts when this "remanufactured" language is used. Even this Torque Convert itemized on my invoice...it does not say used or reman'ed and the absence of that language makes one believe it's new. However state law in NY requires used parts to be, on record identified as indeed "used parts". Failure to do so is technically a violation of law.

There are few things as cherished to people than a straight shooting mechanics that you can trust. God Bless all you that instill confidence and comfort in your clients. I would not even get upset over a mechanic performing something without informing me and paying him. My only problem with that in this case is the series of "things" done not quite right ultimately add up and paint a suspect picture...

If that is the case then the original poster really got screwed. He agreed to and paid for a transmission "remanufactured" in a factory, and got something "rebuilt" in a shop. Going to a dealer is no guarantee of getting a better deal though. Dealers are just as likely as anyone else to "rebuild" a transmission on the premises, or to order a "remanufactured" unit from a supplier of such.

About all this thread is good for now, is for you to read it, so you don't get screwed the same way.

Earle

I'm wondering how he "refurbed" your original torque converter, as from memory they are a steel, welded shut unit.

Nobody "refurbs" a torque converter in a shop that can't remanufacture a transmission.

Maybe he cleaned it up and sold it to someone else, maybe he cleaned it up and sold it back to you, who knows, but he didn't refurb it.

Spdloader

Sounds like a case for a small claims court. If they have violated your state laws, you should be able to get your money back for the areas where they violated the law.

I haven't worked in this industry for quite some time, but I understand that torque converters cannot be rebuilt, refurbished, remanufactured or whatever you want to call it. It was decades ago when they stopped putting drain plugs in them, so you cannot even change the oil properly. In 1978, they told us that if a transmission had burned oil in it, the torque converter was junk.

It is fraud, a criminal offense, to sell used parts as new. They have to be identified on an invoice, as "used torque converter", "used widget", etc. Failure to do so is a form of theft.

In my experience it takes a little work to be honest and ethical, but it is easier in the long run, not to have to make up all those excuses, and you get to sleep at night. Sadly, the majority of people don't even try to be honest. They just do whatever is convenient, or what they think other people are doing. One thing you can count on though, is consistency. If people are honest, they are honest all the time. If people are dishonest, they are dishonest all the time. You should call your state's attorney general. If they have laws, then maybe they have someone to enforce them.

You can also refer the problem to your credit card company. If you paid for a remanufactured transmission and you received a rebuilt one they will intercede for you.

In the short run they will remove the charge from your bill while they investigate. If they find in your favor they will cancel the charge to your account and charge it back to the shop.

At that point you will have your Jeep with its rebuild transmission and no payments....

Won't that likely result in the credit card company suspending the card's account too, until they decide who is going to pay them? I've no experience in such things.

billy ray wrote:

Nope... They temporarily remove the charge from your account. If they rule in your favor they credit the amount back to you ( completely remove the charge) and then charge it back to the vendor by withholding that amount in payments to him..

I rented a car from Enterprise and they charged me 10 days while I only had it for 9 which was documented on the contract and receipt. My calling and writing to the company had no effect...

I wrote a letter to Visa and enclosed copied of the documentation and notes on when I called, who I spoke to, etc. I got a letter back telling me the charge had been temporarily removed pending investigation. When the next billing cycle came around the charge was there and the exact same amount credited back.

I expected to see a prorated charge for 9 days appear but over the next several months it never did. When I called Visa they told me that they voided the entire transaction as they deemed it fraudulent.

Now I suppose Enterprise could have sued me in court but imagine the wording in the filing.

"We, Enterprise Rent-a-Car, knowingly and with malice charged the defendant an amount in excess of our agreed daily charge, as documented by the written agreement, with the sole intent to steal from him."

I'm not a shyster (or even a lawyer) but that would seem to me to admitting in court to what may well be a criminal action.

That is why you should always use a credit card when making a large purchase. There are state and federal laws that offer you protections. Debit cards do not have this protection. Now.. YOUR bank may offer it on debit purchases but hey are not required to do so Using a debit card is the same as writing a check with the handicap of your monies being withdrawn immediately (i.e. you can not stop payment)