Willys/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?

I'll bet a Mercedes diesel would fit.

If it wasn't for diesel trucks there wouldn't be anyone in Del Mar, CA. That is if there were anyway. So fuel had to be somewhere around. In a real pinch, look for an airport (jet fuel).

Jet fuel is not pure, K-1 Kerosene. Use of K-1 is _not_ approved in any civil jet engine (that I know of):it would tear up the fuel controller unless a little oil were added. Jet-A has a lubricity spec, and is a wider cut fuel than K-1 kerosene. It is a lower lubricity spec than Diesel and is not specified for cetane rating. For what it's worth, airports run all their diesels on the stuff and most don't even add lubricant-I would for safety-but I've never heard any complaints or damage claims. Somewhere, it's happened.

The same fuel can be sold as Jet A and #1 Diesel, if it meets both specs, and often is and does. I would put it in any small diesel engine with added oil,and/or a cetane improver like Power Service. It's not economic. But it will safely get you home.

All civil and Navy turbine aircraft use Jet-A or JP-5 fuel. The USAF uses JP-4, which is a _wide cut gasoline_. It will run the old "kerosene" or "white gas" tractors, multifuel military truck engines, or a few other things, but not a modern gas or diesel engine. I'm told reducing fuel pilferage is a reason for the USAF's intransigence in keeping JP-4.

The specifications are different but not exclusionary: a given fuel may meet one, both, or neither specification. JP-5 has strict sulfur and vanadium limits. On road diesel has less strict, but similar sulfur limits, vanadium not specified. Lubricity is more strict for diesel fuels. Cetane rating is very important, this is the "dieselability" of the fuel as compared to pure cetane. If the fuel meets both specs they certainly can sell it-at different prices-to different customers.

I think you have to buy the full ASTM standards but I'm sure they're summarized somewhere. If I find them, I'll pass them on to you.

Bear in mind-relatively little #1 Diesel is sold to onroad customers! Almost all diesel sold is #2, or in cold weather a blend. So,"I never smelled anything like jet fuel at the Bosselman" is probably valid. You probably haven't.

If they don't show very different levels for Jet-A (JP-5) and Jet-B (JP-4) then it's their chart that's wrong.

Every airport in the country big enough to sell jet fuel has a fuel truck which is amost always diesel and is almost always operated on Jet A for convenience. Call the local FBO, don't take my word for it.

All aircraft turbine engines will start and run on #1 or #2 diesel, or for that matter car gas, avgas, K-1 Kero, Coleman fuel, or a bunch of other things. The _legal_ fuel for certificated aircraft is what is specified on the aircraft's Type Certificate Data Sheet, and is almost always Jet-A and whatever other alternate and emergency fuels the Flight Manual specifies, if any, and under the specified limits. Some aircraft-like piston airplanes have for legally burning car gas-have a Supplemental Type Certificate enabling sustained use of other fuels, again under certain conditions. Ag operators run PT6 Pratt powered aircraft on #2 Diesel routinely, legally, and safely.

Legality aside should you put diesel fuel in your Lear? Probably not, since although the engines may burn it satisffactorily, the fuel lines will freeze up at cruise altitude and you will flame out and possibly tear up the fuel controllers. On the other hand I know a guy who runs his Soloy Bell 47G on diesel fuel and since he lives in Mississippi and never flies more than two or three thousand feet AGL-and his fuel never gets colder than 40 (above) F.-it'll never cause a problem. (He did trim his fuel controller on the diesel fuel. Important.)

Generally turbine operators, except ag operators and homebuilders with surplus or converted APU engines, are not price conscious and that's why jet fuel costs what FBOs charge. Wholesale it's price is about the same as diesel.

I know this is hard information for many people to comprehend, but if you will ask a petroleum engineer _who has worked with these fuels_, or any shop dealing with ST6 or ag/experimental PT6 applications, they will verify that it is so. I really have been there and done that.

Seeing as both of your qualifications mean shit on the internet, Bill is

100% correct....

'I' have no qualifications and 'I' think saying you can use Coleman or pump gas in a Jet engine in a pinch is BS.

Something like saying you can add a gallon or two of gas to a tank of diesel to get you to a gas station. Very dangerous advice.

Ah Yup, maybe some 'can' do that, but to say that in a world wide forum is wrong in my mind.

Hey, I could be wrong, it sure wouldn't be the first time, but.....

I see too much of 'If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with BS' in that post.

And do you know what? Jeeps don't even use diesel engines!

LOL!

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"L.W.(ßill) Hughes III" wrote:

So will just any old kind of 'fuel' work in a Jeep diesel then?

Mike

Will H>

The Navy did, in fact, run its early jets-Banshees and Panthers-on

115/145 Avgas. The worst possible jet fuel, and one that would destroy the hot section on a modern engine quickly-but it was also the fuel used by the J-47s-in modified B-47 pods-used on B-36s. The burner cans and T wheels would foul and they would clean them by injections of pulverized walnut hulls. Lesser grades of Avgas worked ok provided the engine was _trimmed_ to use the fuel, and a little oil was added , or in the case of the B-36 a modified fuel controller was used.

Leaded gasoline is not under any circumstances permitted for continuous use in any modern gas turbine. _Unleaded_ gasoline is an OK alternate fuel on some engines, but again it neeeds oil and must be trimmed for the fuel used. Read The Fantastic Manual!

The T-2 Buckeye actually has a small lever on the throttle quadrant for "AVGAS" or "JET FUEL". The fuel controller has a switchable valve and the engine is trimmmed for each fuel.

On the new FADEC engines, I don't know what the procedure is. On mechanical engines, use of any fuel for which the engine is not trimmed is automatically an "emergency" rather than "alternate" fuel.

The main objection to flying #1 Diesel with an antifreeze (Prist) today is its higher sulfur and vanadium content. A number of the warjet guys are flying on it anyway and with ULSD introduction it will probably be STC'd for a lot of the turboprop and helo fleet,enabling owners to truck their own fuel and leveraging Jet A retail costs down.

For the record: I am not now nor have I ever advocated operating any aircraft on any fuel not approved both by the engine manufacturer AND, on ATC'd aircraft, the Type Certificate Data Sheet (or an approved STC). Since oIIIIIIIIo has never seen a TCDS or an engine Type Certificate, he will doubtless post more bullshit, but that's the straight poop.