101s getting too common?

Gearchanges?

Andrew

Yes, the Xfer box is backwards, I assume the diffs on the axles 2 and

Alex

Hehe. I've been studying the diagram very closely. I was hoping it was leaf sprung, but it's on coils. Although the Xfer box layoud is very interesting, I may use this layout on my 6x6 project, I think the only issue with that is a blanking plate for the gearbox input hole.

Does anybody have a detailed drawing of a PTO unit? If this is to work as described in the diagram, I'm assuming the PTO unit has a bearing assy in it, which avoids the need to have an alternative mainshaft rear bearing.

One question, if I may, the steering - Is the rear axle simply steered off the front using two rams, or is it more complex? It looks like someone has connected a ram to the front, and a ram to the back and one ram moves the other ram, closed system?

Alex

The second transfer box is standard and the same as the first. The boxes are linked through the PTO holes which means that the second box has to be turned round. The hole where the gearbox would have been connected is blocked with a plate.

The only modification is moving the fill plugs as the diffs are canted nose up because of the severe prop-shaft angles. AFAIK the diffs do not object to being used backwards.

David

I can only confirm that axle 2 is a salisbury (with an auto-lock diff like axle 3). I see your point that the diffs would have to be turned over - perhaps the whole axle case is inverted? I'm struggling with the logic a bit!

David

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:05:01 +0100, Austin Shackles made me spill my meths by writing:

Modest as ever Austin :)

Clever bit of work jiggling the running gear from two landrovers into that. How many were made?

AJH

Hmm. I had assumed this to be the case, but now I'm having second thoughts. I'm not in posession of Defender xfer box plans, but I can't see how the second xfer box works. Certainly using series boxes, the input into the 2nd xfer box cannot drive the geartrain with just the PTO attachment, as the PTO takes it's drive off the output gear from the main box. Without the gearbox in place this gear would be missing.

Anyone got any ideas?

Alex

Wow that gave me a headache...perhaps the cover plate has a spindle machined into it which in turn was a bearing and main shaft slid on somehow...

Bit like a drawing pin with a blob of blue tack on the end to represent the bearing and shaft. Hope that helps you picture what I'm trying to say.

Lee D

On or around Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:00:39 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@bangor.ac.uk (D.P.Round) enlightened us thusly:

no, the axles are turned round 180 degrees, which makes 'em work forwards again. The same theory will allow you to put a front axle facing forwards on the back of a 6-wheeler, for example. The axles aren't inverted, nor are the diffs altered, other than running backwards. Some diffs don't like this, to do with splash oil going in the wrong places (or more specifically, not into the right places).

If you look into it, you'll find that the front diff on a normal one is the opposite way round to the rear diff, i.e. the crownwheel is on the other side of the pinion - thereby making the wheels go the same way, with the propshafts turning the same way all the way from front to back.

erm. buggrit, it's dead easy with gestures.

Propshaft rotates (I think) clockwise when viewed from behind (doesn't matter, the explanation is the same, except that the lefts and rights will be reversed). Thus, viewed from the rear, the left side of the propshaft goes upwards, while the right side goes downwards. Thus, the diff pinions do the same.

The rear diff, which has the pinion in front of the crownwheel, needs the front edge of the crownwheel (and roadwheels) to be going downwards for the thing to go forwards, so the crownwheel has to be on the right of the pinion.

The front diff has the pinion behind the crownwheel and the rear edge of the crownwheel needs to be going upwards, so the crownwheel is on the left.

Now, contemplate taking the front axle and wheeling it away from the vehicle, then turn it round so that the left wheel becomes the right wheel and vice versa, without either wheel getting off the ground. Now the pinion is facing forwards, like the back axle, and the crownwheel which was on the left is now on the right, like the rear axle one, so it still goes forwards.

ditto of course for putting the rear axle at the front.

On the MWG, axles 2 and 4 are a rear and front axle facing tother way around, while axles 1 and 3 are the normal way round.

On or around Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:28:49 +0100, Andrew Heggie enlightened us thusly:

nice, isn't it.

Yes its a possibility. You could fix a spindle in there, but then you'd need a roller bearing and thrust washers behind the gear. Makes it a lot more tricky than just a flat plate.

I don't suppose you've ever taken it apart to look? :D

Alex

Yes, thinking logically about this, you're quite right. Looking at the parts manual, the crownwheels are on the opposite sides of the axle, it's just that they are on the same side of the vehicle, which confuses you (or me)

This trick only works on the MWG because propshafts are on both sides of the vehicle? If you took a front axle and rotated the nosecone 180o then it would work backwards, but turning it round, left to right means it goes the same way. The problem arises as the LR diffs are offset, which means turning the axle round results on the diff being on the wrong side of the vehicle for a standard propshaft.

Is that right? I'm getting very confused, and I'm tempted to go out back and get a spare axle or two and start rolling them about.

Alex

On or around Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:31:06 +0100, Alex enlightened us thusly:

if you turn the4 front axle round, then yes, it's on the wrong side, so you either need a different propshaft or alter the wheelbase slightly. But they sneakily got round that on the MWG by using backwards-axles on 2 and 4, so that they're both the "wrong" way round, and then turning the Transfer box backwards too, so that it offsets to the other side, to match the axles - not exactly right even so as on a standard LR chassis, the engine and main gearbox is offset to the left, with the propshafts offset to the right; but on a custom chassis, if you put the engine central you'd get the same offset each way, and any slight difference in the propshaft lengths can be got around by a fractional alteration of the wheelbase.

The transfer box, being just an ordinary set of gears, still rotates the same way, so all 4 propshafts turn in the same direction. Dunno how you go about using the same trick for a 6x6 - if you used Series T-boxes, there's no diff so it'd work. Using 90/110 T-boxes, you can't leave one output disconnected, (unless you lock the diff of course). The other cunningness on the MWG is that axles 1&3 and axles 2&4 don't, I don't think, need a diff in between 'em - the whole thing behaves a bit like a boat, and pivots about the centre when you steer, so the 2 "halves" as above should go the same distance.

wonder which clever sod thought of it?

Yes, I'd like to hear what extra practical use it was. Mind I admire the thinking behind it, a bit of lateral thinking that I would never have imagined.

AJH