1970's Range Rover Petrol Pump Cutting Out

I'm having a problem with the fuel supply to the engine. Basically the engine will run fine until all of a sudden it stutters and stops. If i turn the ignition off and on the pump clicks like mad and the engine will restart immediately. It doesn't happen often, but the intervals are not consistant, sometimes it can be a 5 minute gap, then sometimes a 30 min gap.

I dont actually know how the fuel pump 'knows when to pump', and was wondering if anyone can enlighten me. Does the pump have some sort of mechanical pressure valve which turns it on and off at certain levels?

Thanks for any help.

Does the engine sometimes run out of power? I would suggest changing the fuel filter next to the pump - I had a similar experience with my V8

110, and changing the filter cleared it up.

Stuart

The pump runs continually. Fuel flows continually with a permanent 'bleed' back to the tank.

'Clicking like mad' is usually indicative of an air leak on the pump inlet - broken pipe/hose or lack of fuel in the tank.

It could also be a bit of debris blocking the inlet, falling clear when you stopped the pump (the fast clicking would be the pump 'catching up') and eventually blocking the line again.

Someone may also be along to tell you about the foibles of these pumps which can, themselves, fail.

check tank for any water in it , drain out into tray and let stand for an hour , then check if any water .

i had similar problem to you , i had water in my tank .

filter is useless one water in it and wont pass petrol .

mine happened in winter and the water froze in the filter .

the 12v feed wire from pump can get trapped under the pad between body and chassis , mine had this happen .

make sure pump body is very well earthed to the chassis .

these pumps do have habit of running and then stopping without any warning , and even when you remove and checked them they may not play up .

id fit a new fuel pump, cheap from paddocks at =A334 + vat or richard at beamends can supply same .

loosen fuel line fittings on pump before removing pump from vehicle , use a HEXAGON spanner that has a gap in end of it , ie a brake nut spanner , or youll round the flats off the fuel pipe nuts !!!. im not sure of the size of spanner, 7/16 or 1/2 AF i think .

there is a tank drain bung in bottom of tank , or at least my 1975 R/R had one , you can jack vehicle up one side so tank drains all out fully .

i think when you stop and the pump ticks madly, this is because its pumping fuel flat out for some reason , perhaps because pump stopped running whilst driving , or because of a bad wiring connection .

i think theres a bullet connector about 6 inches away from the pump , in the 12v wire which is the one running into the CAP in middle of pump, this cap should undo and come away to show the solder connection .

you might have a loose wire connection at the pump body .

fit a new pump, new fuel filter, drain tank and check for water .

dont forget that the fuel filter housing has the rubber ring in its top and you need to make sure it seals all around the cup properly .

i dont think youre getting fuel vapour locks [cavitation ] , but this can happen with unleaded fuel , it happens on some PFA light aircraft that use MOGAS [motoring gas] and doesnt happen when they run AVGAS .

.

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Mine had something similar, but on a later model. After three weeks of checking relays and fuses etc. turned out to be the wire to the pump had broken, but was touching most of the time until we went down a mud hole when the mud obviously moved the cable and broke the joint, eventually the sparking made the cable dirty and lost conection. Worth checking the wire.

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com uttered summat worrerz funny about:

Good suggestions so far, do check though it's not sticking floats, though I'd think from the detail you provide that this is not the case.

I think the pump on the early Rangie is the Facet extenal type? Check the earth to it is good if so as well as the positive feed.

Other things to consider - fuel line rotted through and drawing air in between the tank and pump... thus emptying the floats under load and refilling once stalled and ignition on.. the pump will keep up for so long until the float bowls empty. (Just a possibility).

Dad had a 1978 Classic Rangie in and out the garage numerous times, he was told eventually that they removed some sort of filter from the end of the fuel pickup that was getting munged up and gave a warning to not let the fuel run as low as he would normally do due to the pipe now being shorter. Never saw it myself as it was a garage job and I was a 'ickle lad then with hair on my head too.

Let us know when you find the culprit.

Lee D

Try having a look at the thread "Please help - 6 cyl Series 3 Fuel pump" of July 17 - it's possible that there may be some ideas there. Best regards.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I think I've found the culprit: the pump itself. Basically after checking the list of ideas below, I gave the pump a good tap on the top to see what happened; it stopped, another tap and it started again at full tilt. Bugger, should have hit it to start with! I guess the solenoid is sticking or something.

1) I checked the fuel filter, cleaned the magnet etc, 2) Then cleared the inlet of dirt, and the oultlet just incase, 3) Then checked the earth and supply cables, both seemed fine, 4) I have to admit i didn't fancy draining the tank to look for water, so i left that (pleased that i did now....), 5) I have recently had sticky floats and i cleared that up so didn't check that again (also when that happens petrol pours out of the carb breather), 6) I checked but couldn't hear any sucking noises as if air were being drawn in along the supply line,

So has anybody got a good spare kicking about, or is somewhere like paddocks my best bet?

On another note, I think my fuel system must have been modified because i cant see any 'bleed' back to the tank, or i wander if that only applys to the mechnical pumps?

Thanks again.

If the pump is like the old SU type then it is probably the contacts that close to power the solenoid. They are just like the points contacts in a distributor, and get pitted and burnt. If you are lucky you will be able to get the cover off and clean them up with a fine file or emery paper (if they are not too badly burnt away).

Regards Jeff

I kept a 68 Mini's SU pump going forever by taking a distributor points file to the contacts inside it. I got tired of opening the trunk to hit it with a brick when it died.....

If the pump is the same you might be able to clean the points.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail >

Dougal,

You know you mentioned that i should have a return line back to the tank, well i think its missing! In fact i'm convinced, but i cant figure out how they got away without having one. Take another look at the pic :

I think the return should be on the opposite side to the feed, and i presume it can be a smaller pipe. I guess i just need to find the correct type of union joint to fit.

Now you've got me - this does rather tax the memory!

The return(spill) line was to maintain a flow of fuel to keep it cool and prevent vapour locking.

Your fuel inlet from the pump comes in through the hose with the red collar (beside orange oil filler, left of photo, right of car) - yes?

The tee piece on the left side carb (right side of photo) seems to have a blanked off outlet to the front of the car. That's where I would expect the spill return to be - it's my recollection of the Range Rover setup. (I still have that old engine under a pile of stuff and could look sometime if need be). The pipe size could be smaller, although I don't think that it was, nor was there any restrictor in the line to the best of my recollection.

Which fuel pump are you using - the Facet or an SU?

Twin SUs ?

The pump is crap. The wiring to the pump is even worse. The relay controlling it isn't much better,

Throw the pump away (far away) and fit a Facet (not a Solid State though). It fits easily, as the SU pump on a carb Rangie is a near copy of the Facet and they're easily interchanged. The Rangie SU pump bears no relation to the well-known SU pump used on MGBs etc.

All wiring under the chassis of a Rangie is undersized, insulated with a low grade plastic, and simply not up to the amount of weather it's exposed to. Replace it all as a matter of course. OTOH, the rubber-jacketed bullet connectors used are (for once) quite decent quality and matching connectors can be had from Vehicle Wiring Products here in the UK.

Your description sounds right. The fuel pump is very similar to a Facet, but i think its a copy, i think i'll replace it with a Facet as a matter of course. So basically i need to Un-blank off the outlet on the right of the photo, find some pipe and a connector, and return the excess fuel to the top of the tank.

I guess this could have been causing any amount of my problems, and i've no idea what the origonal thinking behind removing the return line was. I cant imagine its done the pump any good, pumping against a constant pressure then the float is full.

There Zeneth Strombergs, but i imagine the pump is the same as for the SU's? I think, as you suggest, i will replace it. Thanks for the advice.

Yeahs you did mention the overflow spews out too once the floats full... now that does have me concerned.

Lee D

Do you thing the over flowing could have been caused by the lack of a return line (and a sticky float)? Maybe a seal was under too much pressure and was passing fuel?

It's only as strong as it's weakest link and it's got to got somewhere so I'd guess yes and say your very lucky to have found it when you did.

Phew eh!

Lee

No. The 'sticky float'(more later) allowed the float chamber to overflow.

There is no seal.

The float itself may not have been sticking it's just as likely to have been the needle valve (metal to metal seal) which the float operates.

The high pressure could have resulted in leaks elsewhere.

Continual work against the higher than normal pressure could have lead to the early demise of your pump - unless it works OK under reduced load when you reinstate the return to tank.