Are RR's "Absolute" junk, or is it only a majority of vehicles?

Suck it and see.

Martin

Luxury cars aren't as reliable as the simple ones in reliability surveys, too many gadgets and flim-flam, so don't expect zero problems, you'll get more than you would if you bought a 2-year-old Honda, the question is would you get more than you would if you bought a comparable vehicle, e.g. a BMW X5 or Mercedes, both of which have build problems apparently. The only zero-problem car is a hire car ;-)

Do they not do reliability surveys in the U.S.? Try looking up the JD Power surver in the UK, if you can find it then that'll give you better results than asking in newsgroups, the sample size is so small in online forums that anyone's opinion is more or less worthless.

Think you're being a bit general. Lexus score pretty high in the reliability stakes but have all the toys. As do Jaguar.

I have a fully loaded 10 year old BMW - and all its problems (not too many) have been basic items that any car has.

Last time I looked at the JD Power Survey the luxury brands weren't doing very well, however I've not looked at one in a year or two, as I couldn't find the last one anywhere, do you have any links to the surveys you looked at? It's always interesting to see these things.

Yes but unless it's a proper survey with lots of participants, personal experience doesn't mean much when trying to look at a marque as a whole. My defender for example has been less hassle than my Audi, but that doesn't mean that Landrover are more reliable than audi, just that mine has been.

Yeah, they're s**te and fall to bits all the time. I get the impression you'd be better with a cotton wool ball and that Landrovers just wouldn't suit you.

In general can _any_ car owners say they have had 0 problems arise? You appear to be somewhat of a trolling f****it.

IMHO of course. ;)

I should have added that I subscribe to a model specific BMW group with some 2000 members and my findings are pretty much the norm on that. Most 'toys' aren't actually model specific but come from a small number of makers who supply more than one manufacturer.

A group like this gives a pretty good idea of likely trouble spots.

Always remember that it is very rare for people to post to groups like this and say that *nothing* is wrong with their vehicle. By the very nature they are searching for solutions to problems generally. Having said that my supercharged Range Rover has had zero mechanical issues in over 30,000 miles. *ALL* I have had done is some work on the Venturecam which never worked from the day I bought it* (and which FINALLY they are ordering a new docking station for....)

When trying to compare models, you need something like a wide survey, not just 2000 BMW fans saying what their car is like compared to rivals owned by their friends, you need relatively disinterested people and lots of them. If someone in here posted what their landy is like compared to their toyota, I wouldn't take it as representative.

Not for this chap it hasn't, just insults mostly.

Err, like with any such group many just post when wanting help with a problem. So over time common problems become obvious. As in any one model or one make group. Of course it doesn't compare to other makes but then I never said it did. Oh - and no survey includes every owner or driver so can't be 100% accurate. But of course gives a trend.

The BMW group I subscribe to is an email one and moderated. And the moderators make it very clear from the off that flames etc won't be tolerated. They even insist on a sig stating where you're from - saves the nonsense of someone asking about a garage etc in their area without saying where they are.

I think you'll find it's probably only my reply that's been insulting, so far ... ;)

No car, whatever the make, can be guaranteed to be fault free, so the subject and questions as posted, are quite nonsensical and appear to me to be confrontationally written, hence me thinking him/her/it a troll.

I've been posting to usenet since 1991 so the above is obvious to me. I suspect we're talking about different things. I am talking about overall reliability compared to other models, you are talking about specific issues with a particular brand.

Not a very accurate trend unless the numbers of participants are large. For example if someone posts that his venturecam is missing in this forum then that's about a 20% rate of missing venturecams across all models of modern range rover ;-)

Just because someone posts a question that those of us with some car knowledge know to be daft doesn't mean that person is being malicious, my mum for example comes out with the most ludicrous stuff, but that's because she's as daft as a brush! She's not a troll though, just doesn't know a tremendous amount about, well, anything really...

Luckily this includes computers so she won't be reading this ;-)

That's right :) The internet is only as useful as you think. Remember - there's lies, damn lies, and statistics. The internet makes a mockery of the last one - which makes it even worse!

-- Neil

You hope!!

Oh no, that's a total certainty! She still tries to tell me what's wrong with the computer though, e.g. the wireless isn't working because the computer is plugged into a different power socket than it was last time etc..

I have too many other fish to fry than worry about - or deal with any grief - that accompany luxury vehicles. Maybe you prefer to micro manage your car

- like you micro mange your low esteem, downing complete strangers putting forth valid questions; you should work on those issues. btw, someone else maintains my cars.

The real issue of my post is this: News only reports grief. By and large, JDP, Consumer Report, etc. reiterate the grief, opinions of RR owners with build issues. The focus of my orig. post - in a short hand surprisingly you didn't understand - was simply an attempt to access additional RR owner info streams complementing JDP and CR data.

"Enigma" describes RR. The high dollar/high maintenance moniker has long been claimed by Ferrari; IMHO there's no more 'tolerance' at the top for another "enigmauto". Also, IMHO, the opposite of enigmauto, is Lexus, which I'm comparing to RR (lx470).

So, I'll rephrase my question line with fewer, smaller words - although I'm unable to post pictures or crude drawings you may find easier to comprehend. Single word answers are acceptable.

RR or lx470?

Or f*ck right off?

LX470, because you're a dick.

Well, you had your chance, seems you decided to take aim at the wrong person as you can't see the screen because of the penis hanging down from your forehead.

Impossible to answer - it's a question like 'tea or coffee', 'whisky or brandy' or 'lager or bitter' - so it comes down to personal taste. If you want a vehicle with character get the RR, if blandness is your desire buy a Lexus.