Charging Deep Cycle Batteries

Just thought I'd mention this for those who may have Optima or similar batteries.

I eventually got an Optima Charger at Peterborough last year (LRO show). I've often been somewhat sceptical about these and you'll probably find that anyone who sells Optima batteries will also have one, and generally only the one for sale. This is because they have to buy the charger in order to become a bonafide Optima stockist.

Anyway, I got one... 100 quid (yes, I know...)

Having now used it on both yellowtops and my redtop (starter) I can honestly say that it's the muts whassits as far as chargers go.

As I have some 400+ quid tied up in batteries I wanted to make sure I didn't fry them with a cheapish 30 odd quid charger. Paying almost 3 times the price for the Optima charger was certainly worth it. Not only do the batteries hold their charge better, but they also 'perform' better. Yes, I know that doesn't make sense really, but it does to me.

This show season will see me getting another couple of yellowtops :-)

Martyn

Reply to
Mother
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Ouch.

So, what does it do that's so special? Make tea?

(OK, all joking aside I know there's a world of difference between a five quid Argos charger (like mine) and a proper three or four-stage gizmo.)

Reply to
QrizB

It senses the state of the battery and charges in different cycles according to need. I've put the manual in:

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I reckon it'd probably be fairly easy to get one cheaper if you can find one of the many Optima dealers who are not doing so well. They'd probably be willing to recoup some of their initial expense in becoming an Optima dealer by selling the 'mandatory' charger off.

I certainly wouldn't buy a battery from someone like this though, as I guess the idea is that they use the charger to ensure that the battery is in tip-top condition before they sell it to you :-)

Martyn

Reply to
Mother

I can do that with mine. It has an ammeter on the front, and a switch, and a current setting.

It's 30years old, very dented and foxed, and I've revived many an old dead battery with it. That and a hydrometer and some water & acid.

Charging batteries properly simply requires the knowledge of how lead-acid batteries work, and the different methods of charging appropriate to the state of the battery.

Which saves me buying £100 chargers and stupidly priced batteries.

Alex

Reply to
Alex

I think you do not understand the difference between standard 'lead acid' and 'deep cycle' batteries, then.

Martyn

Reply to
Mother

"Standard" lead acid batteries come in two types. Cyclic and Float.

Car batteries are cyclic batteries. Caravan batteries are float batteries. They need charging in different ways, and charging them or using them for the wrong purpose means they won't last long.

Optima "spiral cell" batteries are simply a "dry" lead-acid battery, which gives them the only advantage I can see. They don't leak when you turn them upside down. But then neither to dry cell lead acid or marine batteries. The "acid" is a gel rather than a liquid. The "spiral cell" is simply a good method of increasing the surface area of the plates in a battery, in order to get more capacity out of a cell, compared to traditional flat plates.

Funnily enough dry lead-acid batteries come in two types as well. Cyclic and Float. I believe Optima label them "red" and "yellow"

I still don't think they're worth the money. Last battery I had that got inverted I simply re-filled, charged and equalised. It was just as good as it was before.

Alex

Reply to
Alex

In the last 25+ odd years I've paid good money time and time again for what were generally known as 'good' batteries. I've looked after them in every possible sense - lovingly. I've abused them, cycled them with great load and recycled from totally flat (quite often) and I've never had one last anywhere near what I've had from the optimas.

I've also spun a couple of vehicles and seen engine bays covered in the contents, seen one go bang (well, more 'phut' really') and generally been somewhat dissapointed with even the best I could get.

So far as 'leisure' batteries go, they do not offer what I need - never have, never will. Yes, the Optima is well weighty in a financial sense, but if any of mine outlive this current year, they'll have done far, far better than anything I've tried before. The ONLY battery I've ever had that was better was in my 1955 Moggie (split screen, 850cc side valve engine). I never knew what it was, but it lasted the abuse I gave it as an adolescent very well.

There are now other 'clones' of the Optima which I've been tempted to try, however I'm rather of the opinion that the three Optimas I have at present have done more than I expected, so I'll get a couple more.

Martyn

Reply to
Mother

Nah, I'm sure they're AGM not gel. Apart for that, I can't really argue with you.

Reply to
QrizB

"Mother" wrote

Martyn how old are they? Are the next 2 yellowtops to replace worn-out yellowtops?

I've considered Optima batteries, but they are very expensive compared to 'standard' types. They also have smaller capacities (Amp/hr), so making them even more expensive for a given capacity.

Do they last that much longer (life in years) as claimed?

Reg

Reply to
Reg

2, 3 and 4 years, the red top being the oldest

Oh no, these are extras - 1 for my GS and a third yellowtop for Grumble.

I was sceptical but given the abuse they've endured and also that there are many clones around, I'd say they were worth the investment.

Ask me in 10 years :-)

Martyn

Reply to
Mother

Hi Martyn, have heard that the Optima batteries require a slightly higher voltage to recharge 100% and if used in say a 300Tdi Disco the alternator is 5-10% "under capacity".

I'm wondering if this is why your batteries perform better after being on the Optima charger-any thoughts on this??

Cheers

Phillip Simpson

Reply to
Phillip Simpson

Yeah, I reckon so. There are two 'jumper selectable' settings - 14.4 and 14.7 - the manual suggests not using the latter for standard lead acid batteries. I think there may also be something to do with the quality of the current - as my alternator can kick out more than 14.7v

I can notice a marked difference between a full 'alternator' charge following a long run and the full charge following a day on the branded charger. (This time of year doesn't see many long journeys)

I put the red top back on Grumble yesterday (temp around freezing) and it spun the starter like I've not seen before. Scary actually.

Martyn

Reply to
Mother

On or around Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:41:09 +0000, Mother enlightened us thusly:

I've never been convinced that charging on any vehicle (without some clever stuff to make it so) is anything more than about 90% of full charge. I don't think the systems are set up for it - I suspect that the problems of slight undercharging are much fewer than the problems of systematic overcharging, and so they set the alternators up to under-charge. certainly, you can 'most always charge a battery more on a charger even if it's just recently returned from a run.

I noticed mine sounding rather sluggish the other morning, despite 700A tractor battery, but then again it was about -10 by the feel of it, boodly cold, anyways. And it started, to be fair. bloody points ignition ain;t so good though, definitely. On the same engine, when stone cold, the pots come in one at a time, with the last few taking several seconds to wake up, which it didn't do before.

Got onto Like's part s boys about ignition pickups, apparently 3 are listed with no indication of which is the correct one - the drawing in the parts catalogue shows a 35DM8 distributor (the one that has the separate ignition module mounted elsewhere), but also shows a picture of the module for the

35DLM8, which screws on the side of the distributor, and which wouldn't actually fit on the distributor shown. Haynes says that the DLM dizzy was fitted after 1987, and the DM from 84-86, but that doesn't tally with their thing which goes by chassis numbers. Rave thing I have only mentions the DLM, no talk of the DM version at all, but it does have a nice picture of the dizzy, same picture that haynes have, except that Haynes have 2 pictures one of each type.

near as i can tell, the actual pickup is the same anyway, 's only a difference in wiring. ISTR from talk in here that the later disco V8s use the remote-amp system as well, which may be the source of the 3rd type, if it has different wiring connections. Earlier disco uses the same as the later RR, viz. with the amp on the distributor.

anyhow, Like's are ordering the 3 types in, so one should fit...

If anyone reading this has a RR or disco fitted as standard with the distributor with the amp screwed to the side, I'd appreciate an email with a chassis number - seems to be impossible to track down the right parts otherwise except by trial and error.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

In article , Austin Shackles writes

This certainly hasn't been the case historically with cars I've owned. The quick-n-dirty response of manufacturers to the drain of the urban cycle (it's officially a Raleigh Chopper, by the way, but I digress), has been to up the charge rate. It knackers batteries. if you do long trips.

In the 1980s when I used to travel for work, I ruined two batteries (on different cars) before realising. A good pointer is unexpectedly rapid loss of electrolyte. In both cases, switching to he biggest that would physically fit in the vehicle did the trick. One was a Talbot Horizon (Chrysler design), and t'other was a 1600cc diesel Astra estate.

Now you're talking! could you let me know the type, as I'd like to do the same to the landy-with-no-name (yet!).

It's well worth putting an insulating jacket round vehicle batteries, if only bubble wrap, just to help them not get too cold. I use several layers of the heavy foam stuff intended to go under laminate flooring in the bottom of the battery tray, just to help reduce thermal losses by conduction (it also helps avoid corrosion if anything leaks). I've not tried the heating jackets (it seems counter-productive using up the battery's charge just to keep it warm!), but Americans have told me they work well.

Lead-acids don't charge well at sub-zero temperatures, and I believe the self-discharge rate increases too. That's one reason why you might observe better charging on a mains unit - if you have been removing the battery from the vehicle to do this, simply warming it to near room temp will help.

Regards,

Simonm.

Reply to
SpamTrapSeeSig

My tractors had a small temperature sensor which the battery sat on, I always assumed this cut the feed to the field coils if the battery was being over charged?

AJH

Reply to
sylva

On or around Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:57:40 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig enlightened us thusly:

type 643 or 644, the "small" commercial battery. standard fitment to the diesel S3 I believe. Available from any decent farm supplies place, latest one I got was 38 quid plus vat.

I don't normally do it, anyway, unless it's flat. Experience teaches me that vehicle batteries however are almost-never fully charged.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

"Mother" wrote

A Lucas caravan battery I bought in 1992 lasted for 8 years before it would not keep it's charge.

However our Citroen AX has this week had a new battery to replace a

2-3 year old battery.

Reg.

Reply to
Reg

"Phillip Simpson" wrote

I don't know the max current of a 300Tdi alternator, but all modern car alternators now have internal regulators and are adjusted to replace the charge used in starting the motor. Then the current is cut to a minimum - hence an under charge if a battery is used for additional purposes or a second battery is used.

To get a full charge requires an external regulator that senses the battery voltage and not the alternator's voltage.

This is not caused by using Optima batteries.

Reg.

Reply to
Reg

On or around Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:03:06 -0000, "Reg" enlightened us thusly:

later 300 TDis are nominal 100A output. But what you say about voltage makes sense, too.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

voltage

Austin have a look at these links:-

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A more advanced regulator is required. These products are designed for boat use, but also apply to the motorhome I am building on my Td5

130.

Reg.

Reply to
Reg

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