Choosing between a modded Series III or a standard Defender 90

From the description the series 3 is a bastardised hybrid that's neither here nor there, I'd either go for a 90 or a well sorted original series 3. If you're very handy with the spanners then you can fix the hybrid but if you're not, then you might have hassles finding someone who'll work on it.

Speaking personaly, as I assume it's going to be your only car, I'd go for the standard 90. The Series III may look the part, but I suspect that unless you are very careful you'd be buying a lot of work. Unless the owner knows which bits came from where buying spares is going to be a potential nightmare, plus of course it is a modified vehicle and insurance may be diffcult. If the neglected bodywork includes the bulkhead then you could be in real trouble...... You could always fit a 200Tdi to the 90 at a later date, but the 2.5D is pretty capable off road - though on road some patience is required!

If you were just looking for a play thing, then the Series III potentially has a lot going for it.

Just my 2p.

Richard

First of all thanks to Ian and Richard for their speedy replies,

Yes, It is going to be my only car, and I would like to have a reliable car for everyday use. Finding someone to work on it should not be a problem since we live in a country which is full of hybrid land rovers, but if you think it would need someone to work on it regularly, then I would not be too happy. I would not like a car which will spend more time in the repair shop than bing driven around.

Assuming that mechanics are easy to come across and would cost the same, do you think there is much more cause for trouble with the modified Series III than there would be with the Defender?

As Richard said above, the Series III is more tempting as a plaything, but I have to keep in mind that it will be an everyday runaround too, and I do quite a lot of running around, mostly on road.

Please keep the opinions forthcoming because I am still very undecided!

Thanks, Richard M.A.

aking personaly, as I assume it's going to be your only car, I'd

aradise.com- Good Music, No Vine

once you get anything that is not standard that someone elese has done then you open yourself up to a lot more work.

unless you had lots of LR mechanical experience already i'd probably go for the 90 if i wanted to use it every day and as my only vehicle.

as a second car the series 3 might win if the conversion and work done looked to be of a high standard.

While when they are both running perfectly the s3 might look more appealing, but as soon as it goes wrong you will have a lot more work to do than on the 90- the s3 will have lots of bespoke bits and pieces and a mix of stuff off other models, and if it is like all the other series landies i have seen the wiring loom may be like a rats nest.

Do you have more than one parking space? If so get the series and spend the extra lolly on an old audi for everyday driving. I personally would never recommend that you off-road your everyday car, off-roading can damage the car or it can get stuck for a while, leaving you car-less which can be a PITA. With two cars you can leave the broken off-roader for a while until the time or the cash is available to fix it.

No-one here has any way of telling which would require more work, as no-one's seen it, the 90 might be a crock for all we know, my concern was that it'd usually easier to fix the 90 than the series as it's stock and the parts and experience is readily available all over the country.

Seriously, get two cars! If you can only get one car then get the 90, but if you can park two then get the series 3 and a runabout car with the extra cash. That's what I'd do anyhow ;-)

gaa.. you're making the choice much harder now. Remember I'm giving up comfort to get a land rover that I can drive every day. If that does not make sense I can just get a Series II or IIA landy for under =A31500 and keep my present car, which is an ideal runabout. Alternatively, I can get the Defender AND an older Series some time soon, so I keep to Land Rovers all day round because I cannot stand driving around in a small feeling-less car any longer.

Oh, choices are the biggest problems in life.

The defender seems to be a much wiser choice, but I guess I'll just have to soft-road in it if I want it to stay whole... Is it very common to break down your car when off roading? We don't have fords or rivers to cross, but we do have a very rocky country (I'm from the Island of Malta, by the way) so I'll be offroading on soil and rocks mostly, + the day to day driving on our roads which are completely horrible.

I'm very confused. I appreciate your help greatly because I would like to avoid spending loads of money on a car which would not be reliable.

Just this one question. Assuming I find a Defender or Ninetey (say post '87) in a good condition and stay on the road, are they practical to drive around in day in, day out?

Thanks loads from very c> >

t the series and

of telling which would require more work, as

wo cars! If you can only get one car then get the 90,

OK, in that case personally I'd recommend getting a 90, or if you can stretch to it, a 110 as it's more practical, then you can get a short wheelbase series later for a real off-road toy.

It depends on the terrain but most importantly on how you drive it. When I first got mine I bent quite a lot of the drivetrain because I drove it too hard off-road and ended up with a repair bill that was half the cost of the vehicle. If you're driving it across rocks big enough to bash the underside then that's probably too much on a regular basis but they're pretty tough, I do green laning in mine and the occasional off-road course and have never seriously damaged it off-roading in the last 5 years.

Just drive it carefully, always assume that the accelerator pedal is your worst enemy and try to avoid spinning the wheels, the faster they spin the more damage you do to your differential, and if the wheel suddenly grips then bits of metal can fly out from underneath the truck!

Yep, as long as you can afford the fuel costs, servicing costs and the noise. One of the reasons I don't tend to post much mechanical know-how in this group is because the Defender has been the most reliable car I've ever owned despite me off-roading it fairly regularly.

Unless you intend going mad with it, the only bit that can be considered a weakness is the track rod - it wouldn't cost too much to have a spare in the back in case you do bend it (I carry old one in the back, but then I have a 110 which is much more likely to get bent - adding the protection bracket off a 110 will help a lot too). Doing damage that will completely halt your vehicle is rare when a bit of caution is applied, unless you are unlucky! Just remember, a rock will go through the diff case (on any vehicle) relatively easily.

Yes - if you like the driving position - I haven't driven anything else, where I've had a choice, for over 10 years and well over 300,000 miles. I personaly like sitting "upright" and find it very comfortable, others don't. The seeming lack of elbow room takes a bit of getting used to, but then in your climate I expect you'd have the window wound down anyway!

No problem - the fact that you are asking the right questions indicates that whichever vehicle you choose is going to a good home.

Richard

the series and

telling which would require more work, as

cars! If you can only get one car then get the 90,

I've just had to suffer a Ford Ka for three days, due to the water pump bearings giving out on the 110 at the weekend (the Ka was the cheapest hire car available). One word: horrible. Crap driving position (my head was in the roof, and i'm only just shy of six feet tall), I couldn't see the speedo (no excuse Sir), no luggage space etc. etc. I know it is "just a mini car", but the real Mini is a delight by comparison.

A side note: I'm after a LHD diesel anything Series or 110/90. It's for commuting, so an 88" would be fine, truck cab even. Anyone got one?

Stuart

Although I'm a fairly new owner myself I might be able to add a little to what's already been said, I have a mate who uses his 90 as his only car, well unless you consider his Morris Minor which is rarely mobile 8-), and he and his partner are happy with the 90 for that task. I have an original SIII and most definitely would not consider it usable as a first car, it's a goods carrier/tow vehicle and general play thing. Another mate has an SII which he would never consider his first car either.

One point I don't think anyone's made, why limit yourself to just two cars?, there are thousands of Land Rovers around to choose from!, yeah I know you wanted less choice 8-).

Greg

Thanks to Ian, Beamends & Greg for their answers

They helped a lot.

It makes sense to look for a 110 because It will increase space greatly, and I need to lunge things around quite frequently for my business. The problem would be parking and increased fuel costs though.. so I might get a 90 and a trailer...

Greg, I limited the choice down to two cars from the Land Rovers I saw till now. LRs in Malta are relatively expensive and I shall be selling my car to buy one, so the budget is relatively limited.

of the question a a runabout, but I might consider getting one when I have the cash and use it exclusively for off roading. I already know that if you do not speed, you can offroad in anything, I did it (mildly but) successfully in my previous 2 cars - an old Peugeot 505 and my current C2 without ever suffering the consequences. I've also offroaded slightly in a LWB pajero and a pajero mini (the precursor to the Shogun Pinin)

As for fuel and servicing costs... on a new car servicing costs are phenomenally expensive, I paid 3 times the price of the services I used to give to my 505 for one service on the C2. Fuel should work out to be nearly the same as the C2 because I can reclaim the VAT and file it as an expense for my company, saving on income tax too in the long run. Since the C2 was not commercial, I could not do that.

Oh, and beamends, the seating position is just perfect, I leave my seat in an upright position, and the LRs I tried were just lovely.

Thanks aga> wrote in

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

new owner myself I might be able to add a little to

The 110's not *that* much longer than a 90, it doesn't pitch around as much as a 90, and the extra space is sooooo useful! The 110 is about the same length as my Audi A4 in fact.

As for fuel costs, no idea on the difference but again I doubt there's a huge amount in it.

Whatever you decide to get, good luck with it.

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

new owner myself I might be able to add a little to

If I was making the choice, having driven on what you call roads out there!! I would choose the 110 for the better ride. My 110 had heavy duty suspension and was one of the smoothest things I have ever driven!!

John

Having made the choice to go Defender, is there anything in particular you would recomend loking out for. From what I've gathered the weakest links are:

- Rusty Chassis or Bulkhead (check Cross member and the place where the coils rest on the Chassis)

- Oil-leaking engine

anything else in particular?

Thanks,

Richard

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

new owner myself I might be able to add a little to

Bulkhead outriggers (easy enough to fix, but a good bargining point). Gearbox clunk, i.e. mainshaft/fransfer box input gear has worn splines. The brackets where the rear radius arm attaches to the axle - these are not available as a spare part and would need to be fabricated, or the axle tube changed - not usually a problem on Defenders, more of a Discovery thing, but worth checking.

Run the engine with the rocker cover filler/breather off and look for "chuffing" (more of a poping sound), and look to see if oil is being blown out of the dipstick tube while running too. If either are happening then the dreaded porus block on numder 4 cylinder has likely happened. The engine will go for years like that, but will use quite a lot of oil.

Check the windscreen wipers are working - siezed wiper boxes are cheap, but fitting is a complete pain.

Richard

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

fairly new owner myself I might be able to add a little to

On or around 8 Nov 2006 23:34:09 -0800, " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com" enlightened us thusly:

normal for a land rover... besides, a bit of an oil leak protects the chassis :-)

Bulkheads can go in the top corners below the windscreen.

Transmission wear on LT77/LT230 combination, detected by clanky-clunky gear changes, and a noticeable metallic clank on taking up drive, especially if going from forward to reverse.

|| once you get anything that is not standard that someone elese has || done then you open yourself up to a lot more work. || || unless you had lots of LR mechanical experience already i'd probably || go for the 90 if i wanted to use it every day and as my only vehicle. || || as a second car the series 3 might win if the conversion and work || done looked to be of a high standard. || || While when they are both running perfectly the s3 might look more || appealing, but as soon as it goes wrong you will have a lot more work || to do than on the 90- the s3 will have lots of bespoke bits and || pieces and a mix of stuff off other models, and if it is like all || the other series landies i have seen the wiring loom may be like a || rats nest.

I'd go for the 90 every time. A standard (ex-farmer's) 2.5 n/a 90 was my first Land Rover and it was perfectly useable as an everyday driver, from the work commute to several long motorway trips. I had a lot of fun gradually modifying and improving it as time and funds allowed. The S3 might look funkier, but someone else has had all the fun and, as other posters have said, finding sources for parts and getting insurance might be a headache. If you've done the mods yourself, you know how to fix it, and it will be *yours*.

| I'm very confused. I appreciate your help greatly because I would like | to avoid spending loads of money on a car which would not be reliable.

The British army loved the n/a 90 - slow as hell, but rarely break down and tough as an old boot.

On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:50:45 -0000, "Richard Brookman" scribbled the following nonsense:

dunno, wound up properl yin a fomer life I managed to get 85 of the damn things, plod all day at 50