Def TD5 uneven idle when hot (pantelis from Greece)

People Hi from Greece,

I would be extremely obliged if you could shed some light and share your knowledge on a problem a fellow LR owner is experiencing here in Greece.

The vehicle is a 2005 model year Defender 90 TD5 station wagon. The car has been tuned with a Jeremy Fearn remapping and slight increase in turbocharge pressure about a year ago.

Since then there was absolutely no problem and the car has picked up some serious power and torque (it was also fitted with a cruise control kit and THREE (3) Quaife ATB differentials but this is another story which can be told in another post if you are interested)

Back to the posting reason now.

A couple of weeks ago the bleeder from the fuel filter has broken suddenly and the fuel tank has emptied on the side of the street. The owner has not realised the problem in time and he was trying to start the engine.

When the problem was traced the car was taken to the authorised dealership where they replaced the filter.

They added about 8 litres of diesel but the car was not starting well so they added 8 more litres and it started OK.

The owner took the car and drove to his home.

About 30 km away (that is almost 20 miles) the car started developing a very uneven idle when hot and when left without pressing the accelerator pedal was almost ready to "die". Serious black smoke also was coming off the exhaust when the car was moving and the accelerator pedal was depressed so as to gain speed or torque. There was also some small hesitation on picking up speed or torque but nothing very serious.

The owner took the vehicle back to the dealer where they ended up replacing one injector (the one in the middle of the five). It has cost him a whopping 950 Euros (800 pounds !!!!!) for this injector and replacing it.....

But the car still continues to have a very low and erratic idle when hot.

When it is cold the idle is steady and at the proper rpm range (eventhough it lacks a rev-counter the driver hears no difference on the sound of the engine while idling and still cold) The black smoke has dissapeared and there is no lack of apparent lack of power or torque at the moment.

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We fear that the crud and dirt that has accumulated inside the fuel tank after 5 years of driving may have found their way into the fuel system following the rapture of the fuel filter bleeder.

It does make sense since the distance covered following the replacement of the fuel filter (before the replacement of the 3rd, middle, injector) corresponds to around 3 to 4 litres which is, AFAIK, the volume of fuel required to fill up the fuel delivery and distribution system. So we are afraid that dirt and crud may have contaminated the other four fuel injectors also.

the owner has used fuel conditioner and fuel system cleaning additives but without any serious results. He is also using SHELL DIESEL V-Power fuel for now just to make sure that if something can be cleaned without removal this will be tried.

What are your suggestions?

Do you know anyone in the UK who repairs/reconditions/restores/remanufactures the injectors from the TD5 engine?

Your help, assistance and ideas are always a treasure.

Take care Pantelis Giamarellos LAND ROVER CLUB OF GREECE

P.S. I will also be having information on how the new KAISER locker from Brazil will perform. We have already ordered two units (one for the front and one for the rear differential) to fit them on a 2003 model year Discovery 2 V8. I have been assigned as the exclusive representative and distributor of KAISER lockers in Greece and Cyprus and will test them extensively on the D2 and one of my cars (the ex Camel Trophy Discovery 200Tdi, 1993 marshal 1 vehicle) before I introduce them to my region. Will of course keep you updated for them also.

Reply to
Pantelis Giamarellos
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It sound to me like there is either an air leak into the fuel system or there is still air trapped somewhere?

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

We've had this show up in customer's vehicles although relation to fuel level is unknown. Sometimes cured by replacing the air bleeder on the fuel filter housing. (There is a Land Rover bulletin regarding this). It is available as a kit, although the part number escapes me. It is the connector on the filter with the white boot... I think it is the rearmost outside connector. WJN500110 I think is the part number for the bleed kit.

The vehicles that still exhibit rough idle and stalling after this has been done have had the injector seals and o-rings replaced. WARNING : do NOT touch or clean the injector tips, you will destroy them.

Try removing your fuel block and checking the gauze filter in the head for blockage/contamination. You will require a new gasket to re-fit the fuel block. MSX000010 from memory (check to make sure that's the later type).

cheers, Craig. Qld, Oz.

Reply to
CraigB

Jeff and GraigB thank you for your kind input.

I will pass your comments and suggestions to my friend and will advise you of the outcome.

Take care Pantelis

Reply to
Pantelis Giamarellos

I had similar problems on a Rangie Classic VM. It turned out to be a perforated fuel pick up.. just on the bend where it came out of the top of the tank. On a Full tank no noticable issue. On a low tank and I got the surges as Air got drawn in but the perforation oddly did not let fuel out.

Prior to the surge starting for months I'd had problems with having to crank to start... if I parked nose down on the drive no problem. This was the fuel runnning back in to the tank.

It just seem my experience supports the observations so far of air in the fuel line, even if its not a perforation of the lines but a leak due to poor reassembly.

Hope this helps and good to see your still at it over there!

:0)

Lee D

Reply to
Lee_D

TD5, Hmmm...

Has the main fuel filter been replaced? Like someone said, crud stired up in the tank could have now got to that, and clogged it.

With modern diesels, the fuel reaching the injectors must be absolutley clean, or it's a bad (and expensive) time for all.

Also... Just so it's checked, inspect the engine wiring loom, and it's connector where it meets the ECU. If it's showing any signs of engine oil at the ECU end (it should be clean and dry!) it's a replacement loom needed too. Oil in that connector can give the same sort of symptoms, sadly not uncommon.

Hopefully on your friends, there will be no oil where it shouldnt be.

When the injector was replaced, did they replace all the disturbed seals and 'O' rings etc with new parts?

As you said there has been a lot of black smoke, check all the air inlet pipes and filter, so that none have collapsed internaly, also the condition of all the engine wiring, to/from all the sensors.

Silly things like that "just happen", but can also "just happen" when other things are happening.

If all else fails, if it's not under LR warranty, get it to a good indipendant diesel specialist, the type who know about heavy trucks etc, they have had fly-by-wire computer controled engines for years, something like a TD5 should be easy for them to diagnose.. And I bet it wont be the first one they've seen either.

Hope it gets fixed soon.

Regards.

Dave B.

Reply to
Mr Dave Baxter

Comrades Hi,

the problem was resolved.

The fuel tank was removed from the car and was thoroughly cleaned. A new fuel filter (the second one) was fitted and the car now operates even better than before.

Apparently when the watertrap plug has broken dirty fuel has found its way to the fuel lines and more so the sludge and dirt inside the bottom of the fuel tank has managed to slip inside the system. Despite having changed the fuel filter with a new one there was enough dirt in the system to clog even the new one.

Cleaning the fuel tank and replacing the first new filter with a second one cleaned the fuel lines and now the car runs like new.

Thanks to all for your suggestions and I hope this incident will assist into diagnosing a possible problem of another fellow LR owner in the future.

Take care Pantelis Giamarellos LAND ROVER CLUB OF GREECE

Reply to
Pantelis Giamarellos

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