That would be going back to what existed only a few years ago. The DVLA decided on SORN to try and help sort out the number of 'untaxed' vehicles around. Since it costs no more than a stamp I really can't see what the fuss is about. I can't find any figures that would prove or disprove whether it has done what it set out to do. My guess is it has worked to some extent.
duly signed "Austin Shackles" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...
Even less than a stamp if you tax or SORN on line, Dave - IF the various people concerned would talk to each other! Last month I tried to tax my shopping trolley, a 1993 Peugeot something-or-other but failed as the DVLA had no record of it being insured. Rang the insurance company who confirmed it was correctly insured. Turns out they batch up the info and send it Royal Mail once a month or so.... Blimey, you could have done this on line back in the days of Sinclair ZX and Amstrad. Probably.
Going back to an earlier post (sorry, lost it) re has anybody had a SORN inspection? Not exactly, but I had my E inspected some years ago in order to retain the original registration. Bit of a hoot, really - half the body was in Reigate, the rest in Woodhatch, the engine/gearbox in Merstham - it was basically smeared over half of Surrey. Oh, and the instruments were in Manchester. Never mind, the suit seemed happy to climb over piles of junk in a lock-up to confirm that the bulkhead was there as this is apparently the bit wot defines the car.
Geoff MacK
On or around Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:10:33 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)" enlightened us thusly:
I don't do grovelling. I will apologise for the implication that it was you who started on about registration, since it wasn't.
However, my comments were based not solely on this thread. You seem to have a habit of taking a contrary point of view regardless, in this group. This may of course only be an impression I've formed, and not deliberate policy on your part, but nevertheless, it IS the impression I've formed.
In general I don't contemplate killfile entries lightly; since apart from the clearly terminally stupid or malicious types who seek only to post complete drivel or pointless profanity, (normally seem to get them in school holidays) almost everyone has something worth reading to say sometimes, even if I don't always agree with them.
On or around Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:16:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)" enlightened us thusly:
^^^^^^^^^^
See what I mean? I'm not advocating getting rid of SORN, and never was, and neither is Mike G. it's the repeated declaration that's the waste of resources, and it's not just the stamp, it's the waste of resources by the DVLA as well. And yes, you can do it online, but it's still a waste of resources, for no gain that I can see. If there was an annual charge for SORN, as with VED, there'd be a reason for renewing it annually. But there isn't.
OK I'll give you a real life example of how it can work in your favour.
I sold a car for scrap and the V5 either got lost in the post or wasn't entered correctly at the DVLA. It was the notification of a failure to SORN that alerted me to the error and allowed me to get it corrected.
An annual SORN provides a regular check on what vehicles are where. It costs very little and isn't exactly hard to complete. Why change it just to benefit the lazy or feckless who can't manage to fill out a simple form on time?
I've sat on the fence over this whilst the thread has raged on but perhaps it time to point out that there are other views and folks often don't express them due to some of the regulars having a tendency to call anyone who contradicts their views a troll or worse ;(
Why is a yearly SORN the only way to notify you? It's still needless to do it every year.
There's *no* valid excuse for repeating it every year other than to catch people out who forget and slap a fine on them.
If more companies and organisations took that attitude, we'd be snowed under with repeat forms every month.
One side doesn't think things through though.
I'm not sure how that was a benefit to you, so the registration got screwed up, so what?
On or around Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:42:04 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@btopenworld.com (Tim Jones) enlightened us thusly:
Although I think if you notify DVLA you get a form letter saying "thank you for notifying us that you are no longer the keeper of". ISTR getting several such over the last year or three.
but you'd not necessarily notice if that didn't arrive. I grant you've found a positive benefit to annual SORN renewal. Mind you, according to DVLA they never make such mistakes, of course... That'll be how I've not got a V5 for the motor outside, then. Somehow, I doubt the dealer I bought it from didn't send it in, seeing as they must send in several per week. I KNOW the dealer had the V5 and I KNOW that I filled in my details on it...
so now, I have to send the green slip and a V62. Which will be going by registered and signed-for post...
On or around Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:45:38 +0000, Ian Rawlings enlightened us thusly:
No, I accept that as a genuine benefit. If I sell something on SORN and send the form in, I promptly forget all about it. If for any reason DVLA fail to take note (including that the form never got there) it'll still be registered to me. DVLA won't notify me, seeing from their point of view, I'm still the keeper. However, if I get a SORN renewal in 3 months or whatever, I'll be going "WTF!? I sold that 3 months ago!"
In the given scenario, that would be the only way it'd come to light.
On or around Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:39:56 -0000, "GbH" enlightened us thusly:
In the stated circumstances, I'd want to know that I was still the registered keeper so I could get it sorted.
I'd not want anything registered to me floating around who-knows-where, and in the event that the keeper change got screwed up, that would likely be the way I found out.
There's one born every minute! :-P
Yearly SORNing isn't the solution to that problem, just one letter sent out to confirm the change or for you to call them would do it, it's no justification for a yearly SORN check. After all if you're that bad at keeping up with things, if you moved or went on holiday for a long time, or got the letter but put it down somewhere and forgot about it, you'd be in the s*it again.
Only because the current setup does not offer any confirmation of the passage of responsibility other than the yearly SORN. It's no substitute for doing it properly.
I'm still having difficulty in understanding the benefit(s) of registration. I know that's not what your petition is about but no registration no need for SORN. The ONLY beneficiary I can see of registration is the revenue!
I got one of those a couple of years ago - for a car that was still mine, I had all the documentation in order and the car was parked outside my house at the time. DVLA are certainly not infallible!
I have signed the petition, though not because I think that renewing a SORN is a dreadful chore, but because I think that the penalty for not renewing is excessive for the gravity of the "crime".
Jim
Jim Warren wibbled
That's my reasoning. To financially punish someone if they forget to conmfirm what's already on record is a bit much, methinks.
On or around Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:54:47 -0000, "GbH" enlightened us thusly:
Well, yeah. It's so they know where to send tax demands, mainly. I'm not sure "they" would allow a setup where they couldn't keep tabs on us all though... so a petition or any other action to scrap vehicle registration is foredoomed. The change to SORN should make sense and emphasising the waste of resources is most likely to work at the moment when everyone is supposed to be getting more efficient.
funnily enough, they mostly seem to try to implement the greater efficiency by adding more managers. This, of course, doesn't work.
What's your definition of doing it properly?
I've given an example of how the current system works, what alternative would you propose and how would it be as effective at checking the process of transferring ownership has been completed correctly?
In this case the vehicle wound up with an honest scrappy who was prepared to help me sort the problem. It's not difficult to envisage other less desirable and more costly results ;(
Registration is not proof of ownership!
What's 'the problem' that needed sorting, a totalitarian process that doesn't benefit you in any way?
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