LPG opinions needed

I'm now seriously considering getting the RR (1997 4.6 V8) converted to LPG - a couple of long runs over Xmas persuaded me that it was worth looking at, at least. I'm looking for real-life opinions before I commit a large amount of dosh. I've followed all the arguments in this NG over the last couple of years, but they seem to generate more heat than light. Can anyone who has actually had the conversion done (on this or a similar engine) relate their experiences and offer advice?

FWIW, this is the current stuff going round my head:

Pro:

*economy (no question - and I can do the maths to workout the payback period) *availability (I have an LPG station about 2 miles away) *capacity (doubling the rather measly range sounds good)

Con:

*cost (I've seen quotes between 1500 and 2500 GBP) *loss of boot space (I want to keep the spare wheel and I do go off road, so underfloor tanks are out) *general running (this is the big one - the engine runs well on petrol, and I don't want to lose the character of the motor - and I've spoken to a number of people who have said the car has never run well since the conversion.. I sort of really like it just the way it is and don't relish messing it about) *convenience (the nearest approved conversion garage is about 30 miles away - I've heard it can take a lot of return trips to get it running just right, and I am a fussy b*gger)

Annual mileage is about 10K, and I get 16-17 mpg average. Mostly commuting, some longer journeys, and I tow between 1.5 and 2.5 tonnes regularly.

Over to you, group - what should I do?

Reply to
Richard Brookman
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Don't forget the duty on LPG will be raised in the next budget, and will be raised year on year there after.

Reply to
Murphwiz

As will the duty on petrol and diesel

Regards Steve G

Reply to
SteveG

For a 4.6 it's worth going for an injection LPG system, more expense short term but better economy and power long term. I've only had first hand experience of the Tartarini Etagas system which works well - I'd recommend Autogas 2000 near Thirsk

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(satisfied customer etc...)

I've had 3 LPG vehicles myself, a 90 3.9, a RR 3.9 and a Disco 3.9 and am now convinced that a single tank system is the only way to go unless you like standing around in filling stations waiting for it to fill up ! The 90 has a Tartarini Tech97 the RR had a Bedini and the Disco is shortly going to have it's twin tank Bedini system replaced with a Tech97 single tank set up.

The numbers add up no matter how you look at it although it's likely there will be some rise in duty the fuel will still remain substantially cheaper than petrol. Either look at this as being a good reason to get it done now rather than later or simply expect another 6 months pay back time.

Tank location/size is always the main stumbling block. The P38A's I've seen have all had tanks in place of the spare wheel. This seems a problem at first BUT there is no reason at all why you can't carry the spare wheel on top of the floor (securely strapped down) and only take it out when you actually need the extra space. It depends how you use your vehicle I suppose.

cheers

Dave W.

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Reply to
Dave White

Whilst I appreciate your engine is significantly different from mine, I had my Discovery 3.9 converted earlier this year and it was the best thing I ever did (aside from marrying the wife). Like yourself I found the running cost of a V8 quite crippling and as I was doing about 800 miles per week at the time it was either an LPG conversion or go back to a diesel. No contest!

The conversion can be seen at

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Like yourself I take mine off-road and was very wary of torpedo tanks on either side of the chassis rails so decided on two 40ltr tanks in place of the normal petrol tank and a smaller (25ltr) petrol tank in the o/s/r wing cavity. This gives me a combined range of about 300 miles; 200 of which is on LPG.

The conversion took just two days and I have been very impressed with the car since. I didn't have to go back to the installer for "tweeks" at all but we did spend a lot of time setting it up right before I drove it away in the first place. The engine runs smoother on LPG and it's immediately noticeable if you switch to petrol whilst driving - absolutely without question it's lumpier on petrol. When I took it back for a 10,000 mile service on the gas system they didn't have to make any adjustments at all and it's the same even now.

When I was looking around for an installer I got quotes varying from just under a grand to almost 3 thousand. I actually paid £1100. The considerations I had when selecting an installer were (in no particular order):- a) closeness to home b) experience with Rover V8's c) willingness to do what I wanted d) references e) cost f) after sales support

In the end I chose someone that had never done a V8 before because they were a) less than 2 miles from my home c) prepared to do exactly what I wanted d) gave me loads of customers phone numbers to ring e) were reasonably priced and f) promised unlimited support afterwards. So far I have not regretted the decision at all and have recommended them to several other people (one with a Ford Explorer) who have all been completely satisfied.

On the two ocassions that I've had need of their support (one of those being today) it's been a case of "bring it straight round and we'll sort it". A few months ago I was getting what appeared to be fuel starvation and that turned out to be a semi-blocked filter due to dirty gas. Today SWMBO thought she could smell gas after we'd filled up and they spect almost an hour searching for a leak. Didn't find one but the smell has gone anyway.

I have replaced the standard plug leads with Magnecor ones and use different spark plugs too. The engine has only back-fired once (not something you'll experience with a sequential gas injection set-up) when I let it run completely out of LPG. The back-fire vent did it's job perfectly and no damage was done.

The Chancellor has announced that duty on LPG is to rise over the next few years so if you're gonna do it now is the time - make hay while the sun shines. Of course duty on petrol and diesel will be going up too ...

HTH

Regards Steve G

Reply to
SteveG

On or around Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:40:31 -0000, "Richard Brookman" enlightened us thusly:

sounds about right, but make sure of what you're getting. The lower end of that should get you a multi-tank installation with lambda control, the upper end should get you SGI (Sequential Gas injection), which is better, generally, provided the installer knows his stuff.

this is an insuperable one really.

If done right, it'll run right. Get it done by someone who you can find out from independent sources has done this engine/installation and made it work. There are any number of naff installers out there including...

if it takes a lot of trips, they're not competent. or looking at it another way, they're learning on your vehicle, and you should get it done cheap on account of it.

LPGA approval means sod-all in real terms, I'm afraid.

Go and post in uk.rec.cars.fuel.lpg, and see if you get any more comments there. I do know one installer who guarantees his work; proper running and at least 80% of the mileage you get on petrol or you don't pay. That's what I call confidence...

Reply to
Austin Shackles

I have two LPG'd vehicles, one with a 4.6L V8 the other with a 3.5L V8 The first paid for itself within 6 months.

Martyn

Reply to
Mother

Twas Tue, 06 Jan 2004 07:55:54 +0000 when Austin Shackles put finger to keyboard producing:

Doesn't it make insurance companies happier and so not load your premium? or so I read on the LPGA website..

-- Regards. Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.) ___________________________________________________________ "To know the character of a man, give him anonymity" - Mr.Nice.

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mrniceATmrnice.me.uk
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Reply to
Mr.Nice.

Yup, but what I was aiming to point out to the original poster, is when doing the sums take into account there will be a susbstantial rise in LPG duty at the next budget.

I've been running lpg for 4 years.. but have recently removed the kit from current vehicle, cars greener on petrol, and it's a pita having a 90l tank in the boot. all imho.

Reply to
Murphwiz

Mother"

Reply to
Richard Brookman

|| || Don't forget the duty on LPG will be raised in the next budget, and || will be raised year on year there after.

Yep, this has been possibly the main reason why I have held back so far. I remember what happened to the duty on diesel a few years back (low to get a goodly number to buy diesel carsm, then suddenly it's higher than unleaded). True that the duty on u/l and diesel will rise too, but it's the differential between them that matters in terms of the economics of converting to lpg. If lpg becomes only a few pence a litre cheaper than unleaded, then the conversion may take a couple of centuries to pay for itself. I don't want to play into their hands, not when it's my own money (which they take enough of as it is).

Reply to
Richard Brookman

|| There are any number of naff installers out there || including...

Well? Including...?

|| ||| the nearest approved conversion garage is about 30 miles ||| away -

Am I meant to read this as "significant"? Is there something I should know? Does it involve the village of Narberth?

Reply to
Richard Brookman

Iwema kit from Chris Perfect - 600 quid or thereabouts.

It was a rather silly way to test if it worked properly ;-)

It actually took 9 months, but for three of those, Grumble wasn't really being 'used', so I discounted them. This was a year or so after the conversion. (That makes no sense... I conducted the tests a year after the conversion, and it took 9 months, 3 of which Grumble wasn't being used. Still doesn't make much sense, but I know what I mean!)... :-)

Fine, it was a 3.5 at the time, the 4.6 was during the 3 months not accounted for. I'd already changed to Strombergs for HIF44 SU carbs and simply rejetted them with BAC needles. Iwema do an ignition processing module which handles the advance/retard - this is well worth the extra 100 quid (I didn't count this into the cost of the conversion).

Someone else mentioned that it can take a while to tune it properly, and this can mean a few returns to tweak. One thing that was a very serious issue, and the cause of much merriment amongst my peers for causing me to effectively breakdown in the Arena at Billing, on the Marque Day run last year and on the junction where the M1 meets the M25 - is the way LPG can dry the pots on carbs. This is only an issue if and when you switch back to using petrol (still inevitable at times sadly). The fix is to remove the dampers and squirt a little oil in.

I've now cured this with the new damper heads - which do not have the little hole in, if that makes sense?

Not doing it earlier :-(

As I've said before, my main reason for wanting LPG was environmental, the savings have been a very nice bonus, however shortlived they may turn out to be.

Martyn

Reply to
Mother

On or around Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:11:36 +0000, Mr.Nice. enlightened us thusly:

hrrrmph. Insurance companies are generally happy with a certificate form the installer, so they can pass the buck if it blows up.

The LPGA is a trade organisation which is trying to set itself up as the only authority on LPG. This ain't the case. I've seen work by supposed LPGA approved fitters which I wouldn't have done myself - silly stuff, like routing gas lines across jacking points, solenoids mounted under the car rather than inside somewhere... and that's just the things wrong with mine.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

On or around Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:59:16 -0000, "Richard Brookman" enlightened us thusly:

sorry, that wasn't too clear. what I was trying to say is that not all the approved installers are good, and some are downright bad. Dunno anything specific about Narberth - my general point covers that - finds out if they've done a 4.6 RR before, and ask to speak to satisfied customers, etc. or quiz others about their experiences.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

On or around Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:46:36 -0000, "Richard Brookman" enlightened us thusly:

what are they supplying for that much moolah?

that really is on the high side. I'd expect SGI and probably multiple tanks for that.

I'll try and hunt the contact details for a couple of decent bods - IMHO it's worth travelling halfway across the country to get it done right. 'course, if your local bod does a good job, all the better.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

Thanks Austin. However, I've done a bit of research and came across this (sorry if it's old news):

Reply to
Richard Brookman

Twas Wed, 07 Jan 2004 07:47:25 +0000 when Austin Shackles put finger to keyboard producing:

Pinch of salt time then....

-- Regards. Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.) ___________________________________________________________ "To know the character of a man, give him anonymity" - Mr.Nice.

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mrniceATmrnice.me.uk
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Reply to
Mr.Nice.

Twas Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:50:08 +0000 when Mother put finger to keyboard producing:

Reply to
Mr.Nice.

Twas 7 Jan 2004 03:19:36 -0800 when snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk (Richard Brookman) put finger to keyboard producing:

hmmm, this isn't so good..

-- Regards. Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.) ___________________________________________________________ "To know the character of a man, give him anonymity" - Mr.Nice.

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mrniceATmrnice.me.uk
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Reply to
Mr.Nice.

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