More 101 Power Loss

Warren's had another go at the truck to beat the power loss problem (runs OK for 15 minutes, dies at any more than 1/4 throttle, let it stand 10 minutes and it's fine for another 10 minutes then repeat).

Yesterday he fitted mint Strombergs, removed the restrictors, replaced the entire ignition system except the distributor (which he found to have significant drive wear but didn't have a new part for).

He found a few nasties - a loose spark plug, plugs not gapped properly, ballast resistor knackered and bypassed, coil (not surprisingly) fried. The fuel pump was replaced last week.

The truck now goes like an absolute rocket, and I was singing the Halleluhah chorus all the way out of Sheffield. Until Hillsborough, where it saw a hill and dropped dead. This time a 10 minute rest only got me another half mile and I had to admit defeat and come home on the back of a truck (it was just too dangerous to limp home as I did last time, as the stops were more sudden).

The RAC guy was clearly impressed with the work, declaring it 'sweet as a nut' and with 'a banging spark'. He called their tech centre, who suggested checking the diaphragms. I'd have bet my mortgage on them being perfect, which of course they were.

I had previously eliminated the old 'run with the petrol cap off' trick, but didn't try that last night. All I can think to do now is give it a run today (locally!) and try out that theory. If that doesn't fix it I can beg someone local to fit me in on Monday / Tuesday to drop the fuel tank again and replace all the fuel lines and wash out the tank.

Does anyone have any other suggestions? Or a box of matches?

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

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Reply to
Tim Hobbs
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,fitted 12 years ago somewhere in the line , in a non standard location. Or maybe the tank filter is clogged up , saw one one where a rubber glove had disintegrated into 10,000 small pieces. Or an air leak into the fuel line, imagine sucking coke up a straw and someone puts a pin hole in the straw. Have you checked the supply using a length of clear hose, then you can see what is happening . Dont give up, you are nearly there. Steve the grease

Reply to
R L Driver

Thanks Steve - all agreed! There is an inline filter and a sedimenter bowl, and I guess that's all overkill when it's filled up a Jet / Shell not from a jerry can in the desert.

What's the normal arrangement on a petrol fuel system these days - 1 in-line filter and no sedimenter?

I think I'll give up on it for today (got so many things to do inside it so I can sleep in it at Billing) and find a pro who can drop the tank and repipe the whole thing.

Cheers

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

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Reply to
Tim Hobbs

I had this exact problem on a 109 a few years ago, the engine was a 4203 ,...BUT the Landover started life as a 2.6 so the fuel system was petrol in origin.

I took it to the local diesel specialist who immediately said "take the sender unit out of the tank , and bin the little brass filter thingy off the end of the pickup pipe"

I don't know if the 101 has a similar thing , but mine never missed a beat from that day forward.

Reply to
Smurf

I need an engineering lesson...

The 101 as standard has an pump in the tank, which has a pickup at the bottom of the tank, pulls fuel through a filter sock and shoves it towards the carbs through an inline filter and a sedimenter.

Warren has fitted a Facet pump in the engine bay, as the pump was the original suspect. How will this draw fuel now - presumably he will have used the same pipework but removed the guts from the in-tank filter and just added a length of pipe down to the same pick-up assembly?

If that is so, then it is probably worth pulling it apart and removing the sock (if he hasn't already)? Is it fair to assume that this sock is complete overkill for a vehicle not exposed to sand and other crap?

I ask not because I am too lazy to go and look, but because I am too lazy to go and remove the fine carpentry that now covers up the fuel tank access panels!

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

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Reply to
Tim Hobbs

I'm a bit confused by this (I'm going to read the manual before I go to sleep tonight), because the in-line filter I have is in the fabric-braided cables, which appear to go to the Eberspacher, and nothing to do with the fuel feed to the carbs. Which suggests I only have the sediment bowl to worry about, plus the sock (if it's there) over the fuel pump.

We are fashioning some kind of blind for the missing bulkhead for nocturnal privacy, plus some kind of horizontal 'pull across' for the hatch. This will still let the air in / out, but keep the light away.

Have I told you about my plan for electric sunroofs?

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

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Reply to
Tim Hobbs

What is an overheating stoo?

You did have the ventilators on the rear doors open? Use the fresh air blower, assuming you've still got it fitted. Or have you removed the bulkhead?

Alex

Reply to
Alex

I did mean stop. was only 1 key out, which isnt too bad!

I had the rear door ventilators open, they didnt appear to do much. It was hot, sunny and still thismorning though. I'd have thought that they need some wind to work better? A good clean probably wouldnt hurt them though, theyre probably pretty full of crap!

Ive still got the bulkhead & blowers. Didnt think of turning them on! (im not a morning person!). Would prefer silent cooling rather than the noise of the fans whirring away, but i'll try them out next week, and see how much noise they make. I sleep with a computer in my room turned on, so dont mind fans whirring away!, but my computer is a lot quiter than the 101 fans!

Reply to
Tom Woods

Im pretty sure it was in the engine fuel feed. I was cursing temperature senders at the time, and only looked at it breifly, so i could be wrong! I think my 101 has had new fuel lines in at some point though, so it could have been added then?

Ive been thinking about this - A pull across blind could be hazardous if it decided to rain. Would it be possible to build some sort of spacer which you could use to lift the roof hatch up a couple of inches?. And would this actually let much air in/out when stationary?. Will have to look at this.

sounds good! sunroofs you say?.. so youre adding some more in elsewhere?.. I have a sunroof in my landrovers hard top. it really helps keep it cool in there in warm weather (when driving anyhow), so having one in the front cab of the 101 would be loverly!

Reply to
Tom Woods

There's room for two, one each side. I need to investigate who fits them these days - they were all the rage in the mid-80's, but I don't imagine there's too much aftermarket for them now.

My Dad had an aftermarket one with a wind-deflector up front, which would be ideal.

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

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Reply to
Tim Hobbs

Do you mean coil, or were you just carping?

It's brand new, along with every other ignition component! I'm coming to the conclusion that there has to be some crap in the fuel line somewhere that moves on big throttle and then slips back on part throttle.

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

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Reply to
Tim Hobbs

Have you changed the coil ??. I had a very similar problem a few years ago.... It turned out to be the coil that was heating up and breaking down internally. Can you get at the coil when you are driving, if so get yourself a can of spray arctic freezer and when it starts mis firing cool coil down and see if fixes it.

AndyP SIII Called Daisy, just passed another years MOT.... Yippee.

Reply to
andy.pevy

In article , Tim Hobbs writes

A 101 engine bay may be a bit too hot for a fuel pump. Causing a vapour lock in the pump itself.

On a different note When did it last have a cam shaft??

Reply to
Marc Draper

They're not too bad, as the blower is in the cab. Shut the bulkead partitons and it's tolerable. (sleep with your head at the rear end!)

Alex

Reply to
Alex

Had a similar problem with a 6cyl 109, except it seemed linked to the amount of fuel in the tank, full tank no problem 1/2 tank fuel starvation, replaced pump etc to no avail, finally sloved it by cutting 1/4 inch off the bottom of the lift pipe in the fuel tank, just before I bought the landy they had replaced the fuel tank,but not the lift pipe, when the tank was full the weight of the fule caused enough of a bowing in the tank to allow the fuel up the pipe, once we reached 1/2 a tank insufficent weight and the lift pipe began touching the bottom.

Very pleased at the time with myself as two garages had been unable to to solve it.

Ta

John

Reply to
John Moorhouse

On or around Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:39:24 +0100, Tim Hobbs enlightened us thusly:

I'd be prepared to bet that it's a mostly-blocked fuel filter meself, having seen almost-identical symptoms on a mate's car. There'll be a filter somewhere. Could be in the fuel pump, your sediment bowl might have a filter in it, depending on what type of sediment bowl it is. Or an in-line one somewhere.

besides, you've done 'most everything else. I assume you've checked the fuel-pump delivery rate.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

On or around Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:53:36 +0100, Tim Hobbs enlightened us thusly:

or it's simply not delivering enough fuel. or it's a vapour lock as suggested by someone else, depending on where the fuel pump is.

worth an enquiry/look to find out what was done with the old tank/pump/pickup. If it was just left in place and fuel drawn through it by an additional pump (not so silly as it sounds, a typical pump failure isn't really likely to stop fuel flowing through it if it's pumped elsewhere) then it could have problems there. From what I've read here, though, I doubt Warren would have done that without at least checking it all to make sure it wasn't full of crap.

but you're going to need to look at this anyway, sooner or later.

do a volume/flow test on the fuel supply - fix it so the pump is operating, and put the outlet into a can, see how much fuel the pump is delivering at maximum flow (i.e. with an open outlet).

Tempted to say "put LPG on it", but that, although it solves the problem, may not be the class of solution you're looking for.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

On or around Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:04:16 +0100, Tim Hobbs enlightened us thusly:

just noticed this bit.

The advantage in this is that you should guarantee to find any inline filters, and also investigate anything inside the tank.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

I spoke to Warren a couple of hours ago. He made up a new fuel pickup, blew all the lines out and so it should all be OK. There is a coarse mesh filter over the end of the pickup, but nothing finer than that apart from the sedimenter.

I'm tempted to pull out the sedimenter and store it safely in the wheelie bin. Before that I'm going to fill it with fuel as high as I can to minimise the lift required in case the pump is struggling, although it is rated to lift 18 inches, and I can't see that it's too near to that. Worth a go though - if I have to drive to Billing using just the top 2 gallons of the tank I can live with that.

Failing that I'm going to have to replace all the lines in case one of Warren's has a pinhole or a blockage of some kind.

I'm also going to try it with the engine cover off, in case it is the coil (even though it's a brand new one) getting too hot. I'm pretty sure it's fuel starvation though.

How important is the fuel sedimenter? I'm not in the habit of filling the tank with sand or mud.

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

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Reply to
Tim Hobbs

Barring crap fuel - which does occasionally happen, amd given that you've got a new fuel tank, it should be fine to remove it I reckon.

Reply to
Mother

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