has anybody got any opions on the removal of the cats from an lpg powered
vehicle?I have been told that although the car ( presented running on lpg)
may pass the emissions mot test without the cats on, they MUST be fitted
if the car was homologated with them even if they no longer work !! If this
is the case how can you put a tdi engine into a car originally fitted with a
v8 petrol and still get an mot on it I've yet to see a tdi connected to v8
downpipes with twin cats on :-) if I can get away with not shelling out on
new ones I will ,prices range from about 600 quid upwards for cats opposed
to 40 for a pair of downpipes
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
Lots of discussion on this from time to time on uk.rec.cars.lpg. Many
people express opinions but I have yet to see a definitive legally based
statement. The commonest opinion is that checking for the presence of
the cats is not part of the MOT inspection, and so you couldn't be
failed as long as you present on LPG and pass the appropriate emissions
test. The next question is whether your vehicle is still road legal
under Construction & Use Regs and I certainly don't know the answer to
A cat is not required for the mot or under construction and use regs
even if it had one fitted originally, assuming it passes the emissions test
And if you present the vehicle on LPG then it's tested as a non cat vehicle
Alan, there are some weird and wonderful rules about cats. IIRC any
vehicle manufactured after 1st January 1995 is required to have cats
unless it passed the EU emissions tests without them at homologation
time. The fact that the engine now runs on LPG is irrelevant.
When you change the engine in a car the emissions test that the MOT
centre carries out should be related to the engine in the vehicle. So,
if you change from a 300Tdi to a 1998 vintage Td5 then you don't need
cats - they passed EU emissions without them - but a later Td5 will
need cats - due to tightening up of EU emissions levels.
Tdi's from 1/1/95 onwards (and maybe earlier) all had cats fitted.
Obviously only one per vehicle though :-)
If I'm wrong on this someone else will surely put me right.
remove the nospam to email me
No you don't need cats as long as it passes the emissions test
and if you fit a 1998 engine to a 1975 vehicle it's tested as a 1975
and if you fit a 1975 engine to a 1998 vehicle it's tested as a 1975
vehicle provided you can prove the engines date of origin
although god know why you would do it this way
Also there is no separate test for cat equipped diesels
Unless it's a truck applying for a reduced pollution certificate
My local LR specialist has put dozens of V8's through the MOT having removed
the cats at a variety of test stations without problems. The only downside
would be if you ever wanted to return to petrol use, ie if the duty goes up
a lot on lpg then you will have to buy new cats and they are not cheap.
As I intimated in my first post, presence of a cat is not checked for in
an MOT. However the fact that your vehicle has passed an MOT does not
make it road legal. For example in the context of LPG, the MOT
inspection does not check that all your gas components are stamped to
the appropriate EU standards for manufacture of parts for use on
automobiles. However your vehicle would not be road legal if you were
to fit parts not so stamped.
For those who say it is OK to remove cats, and I don't wish to say or
imply that they are wrong, could you pleas explain the base of knowledge
which leads you to make the statement. If it is just on the basis that
they are not required for MOT, that is not sufficient justification to
say that removal is OK IMHO.
If you check, there is nothing in the Road Vehicles (construction and use)
Regulations 1986. or in any of the subsequent Amendments about
having to have Cats fitted etc that I can find
There is however a requirement for the vehicles to meet the appropriate
emissions standard. To meet these standards the normal way is to fit a
cat. but it is not a legal requirement
I have checked this with the people from the ministry of transport
If however you know of another law or regulation that it comes under
I would be interested to know
As for a vehicle not being road legal if fitted with LPG parts not stamped
with EU standard I find nothing in the C&U regs about this.
I can understand Insurance companies voiding cover therefore
making the vehicle not legal. but ICBW
Again I'd be interested to know where you got this from for future
Indeed and my opinion is based entirely on empirical evidence, however, if
removing the cats is not legal/allowed and it is not picked up at MOT time,
when is it going to be picked up? Possibly as part of an insurance
investigation in the event of an accident but it would be difficult to
conclude safely that the lack of a cat contributed to a road accident so I
doubt they will care. There are quite a few of these things that people
commonly do and assume are OK such as resting their arms on the top of the
door panel while driving. The construction and use regs frown on using
things for purposes they were not designed for and the top of the door was
not designed as an arm rest! You can legally fit cross-ply tyres to an
original 90/110 but not to a Defender because they were never originally
homologated for cross-plies. I wonder if drivers are supposed to be aware of
all this minutae or whether it's all actually written down somewhere.
I want to fit air bags to my 110.
Should I fit several, or is it sufficient to have one mounted just in
front of the heater matrix and allow it to deploy along the ductwork?
I'm also worried that I may not be able to see out of the front window
after deployment, which could be embarrassing if I'm still going along
the road at the time. Is a periscope sensible?
You've run out of gas and so are running on petrol. You are on your way
to fill up and get pulled over for a roadside check. (Don't know what
the rules are for these - are they he same as for Mot, only checking
what its actually running on at the time)
Ignorance of the law is not a defence. It does raise some questions
though in a wider context about the many modifications which are made to
Land Rovers. Did you see the letter in this months LRO from a guy who
had bought one with RR front axle and heavily modified steering? You'd
have thought he would have checked b4 buying it.
The homologating issue is an interesting one, but something I am not too
familiar with. All this lot is probably buried in a mountain of EU
regulations somewhere, but you can eventually end up trying to prove a
negative, which is well nigh impossible.
You use your right to refuse an emissions test (which you are legally
entitled to do unless you have been involved in an accident where a
police officer has reason to believe that emissions were a contributory
factor). You ARE legally obliged to offer a date (7 day period) in the
next 30 days and a location where the test may be carried out by them.
Obviously anyone with any sense will choose a local MOT station as the
location and book the vehicle in early to have it tested (and adjusted
if necessary) before the VI people get there. (Assuming they actually
bother to turn up). I suppose you could fit some cats if necessary...
This is all part of the act that allows the roadside checks in the first
I'm pretty sure someone posted a link to the act here some time ago.
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.