Need advice for first restoration job

Hey , I've been mad keen on land rovers ever since my dad took me shooting when I was 13 and I got my first ride in an estate owned 110 TDI , however since im
only 18 now im still not at the age where I can buy my own car and afford the insurace !! Im currently learning to drive and should have that sorted by the end of the summer . Then im off to uni for 4 years to Edinburgh at the end of which I plan to buy either a series 2 or 3 landie and renevate it as a part time hobby . Alot of people here seem to be experts on repairing and renevation so I thought this would be the best place to ask . I'd like to get to know more about land rovers and crucially how to renevate one when I finally finish university , however im somewhat limited as to what I can do at the moment . The obvious route to take to me is to get hold of some repair manuals and have a good read ! I've had a look and there seems to be so many different variations, it is hard to know which one would be the best buy ? I was looking at the haynes landie series 1 2 3 restoration manual on Amazon , but this was given bad reviews saying it lacked detail for certain models . Could anyone reccomend a workshop manual that would be suitable for a novice to get some general information about series 1-3 land rovers ? Im also wondering how many of you are full time mechanics as there seems to be a massive amount of equiptment needed to do a restoration job ! The only tools available to me are the ones my dad uses in his signwriting buisness which is great when it comes to spraying bodywork but not much good if I need to take an engine out ! So my next question is do most of you do your own restoration work and spends loads of money on all the gear needed or do you have a trusted machanic to do the job for you ? Im slightly sceptical about the latter as its not really 'your' restoration job when alls said and done ! As a stepping stone I've been given a 2 stroke stationary engine by my uncle which I plan to restore this summer and over uni which should give me some basic restoration experience . Any advice you can give me would be greatly appriciated as I have plenty of time to read up on it all before I start my first restoration job . Cheers , Max
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snipped-for-privacy@tonguebrinkDOTfsnet.co.uk "Max Wilkinson" wrote:

The restoration manual is a bit of a mixture. covering history, some info on major jobs, and the occasional useful diagram. I have found it useful.
The Haynes workshop manual for the Series Land Rovers is one of their better ones, but there are copies of the full workshop manual floating around on the web.

Imperial-size spanners, AF and Whitworth. You don't need to spend huge amount of money on kit until you get to the heavy lifting jobs, like removing an engine. If you have a vehicle with a good chassis, you don't need to worry about welding.

There's a whole hobby around those small stationary engines, but a Land Rover is good for carrying them around in.
I don't know what university life is like these days, and what student societies there might be, but apart from that, engineering departments can be good places to make friends. Not just students, but the non- academic staff. Though things will have changed since my day -- the sort of people I met will have long since retired.
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Consider Hiring one off tools such as engine hoists, find your local small time hire outfit and negotiate a weekend basis.
Ebay is great for tools. Why pay through the nose.
Stick around here and do lots of reading. First thing you need to work out is what you want, second thing to work out is if your going to finish it before you get the next one you want.....and so on.
A picture is often worth a thousand words as they say. So please take a peek on my site..lots of piccys and few words.
Once you have worked out what you want then go for it.. do as much research as possible dependant on your aim, concourse, origional or hybrid. Join a club and seek wisdom of others before leaping in and buying something that you later find out isn't what you really wanted or wasn't quite the bargain you expected.
Work out what you expect to spend then double it. Work out how long you think it will take then triple it. You shouldn't be far off the mark.
If you can do mecano or technical lego then you can do Landrover... well anything pre 1990 (electrics on rangies etc).
Lee D
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Hey , Thanks for the posts , Im going to get the restoration manual next week off amazon (about 13) and have a read at that . Cheers , Max
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my best piece of advice would be to buy tools as you need them. Why spend a fortune on a full socket set, then a full spanner set (metric and imperial) and then a torque wrench, all the little odds and sods like hub nut spanners, propshaft tools etc all in one go? Especially when the rebuild may take a year or two. Might as well spread the cost out and buy things when they are needed and not before. Don`t get over faced with the work required - but take each single peice of the rebuild at a time and only concentrate on that area until its completely finished, then move on. For instance, a mate of mine is rebuilding a rangie with my help. It needs a HUGE amount of work and to look at the overall picture is quite depressing. But we are concentrating only on the sills and rear wheel arches and blinkering ourselves to the rest of the motor until these bits are done - then we`ll move on. Also work out an order of attack. Doesn`t need to be in any specific order - but it gives a structure to your work and starts to look good on the garage wall when thigns start getting ticked off the list!
Good luck at uni.
nick C defender 300tdi csw UK www.muddy-tyres.net/nicks90 www.muddy-tyres.net/v8vera
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Button bashing in practice for another round of Daley Thompson's
Shakespeare to the monkeys by typing...

I'd recommend a tax-exempt IIa or III - free road tax, classic (cheap) insurance, availability of bits cheap & plentiful, Get a genuine workshop manual and parts manual (parts manual can be absolutely invaluable in showing you how bits go together), and look on tools as an investment.
If you're buying new, I'd recommend socket set - Teng stock no. 111-6 a 111-piece 1/4",3/8" & 1/2" for about 200 (I know it's quite a lot, but I bought one to replace a slightly smaller Teng socket set I'd abused for over 15 years (some junkie scum had stuck it in his veins along with some spanners - he's now very wet) - the only damage I did to any of the set was stripping teeth on a 3/8" ratchet using it as a breaker bar (ratchets are for speed & access, not applying lots of torque) with 4' of scaffold pipe over the end (and the repair kit was free) and cracking a 13mm 3/8" socket using it on a 1/2" airgun running over 180psi (gun rated 90psi) - and the set mentioned contains just about all the screwdriver/allen/torx bits you're likely to need (and even splined bits for VW driveshaft and head bolts) Britool combination a/f spanner set ND235C or ND243L - IIRC about 40 ish (or Facom 40.JU9 - 39 inc vat last year) Facom combination metric set 40.JE16 - 80 inc vat last year
I also have Britool socket sets but they're lots more (better quality than Teng)
The above are what I've bought recently - I'm still using spanners (mostly Britool) my dad bought thirty years ago and still fit well.
Draper, Richmond etc are ok but expect to replace them after a few years. Christmas is just around the corner so a quiet word in Santa's ear (and possibly that of several family members so they can 'gang-up') might help. Asking two suppliers for prices on the same article can also often get you a much better deal ("I can get xxxx from yyyy for zzz etc..")
A torque wrench is also important, but all I can recommend here is the Britool EVTR1200 (I don't think they even make them any more but I know mine's always been accurate to within 2% - I've spent more on re-calibration than the original cost) but classic car magazines often run reviews on these (IIRC Halfords 'own brand' and Laser made acceptable ones for around 40 a few years ago)
HTH
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 00:37:01 +0100, "Max Wilkinson"

Have fun!. I started my landy over the summer holidays from uni. I spent time when i should have been revising sitting out in the sun stripping paint :) There really isnt anything that is too complicated in a landrover. I bought a haynes manual which helped me where i got stuck, but generally its fairly obvious. I think i also spent a bit of time reading the 'AA book of the car' which tells you all about how things work. The landrover was pretty much a textbook example of the simplest way to do most things!
You dont need many tools, and it doesnt have to cost you that much money to buy them. I managed fairly well with a set of sockets, a set of spanners and other easy bits and pieces like screwdrivers and a good hammer!
An angle grinder and a drill are also useful. You can hire or borrow engine lifts when you need them.
Halfords do some nice complete tool sets which come with pretty much everything youll ever need and arnt too expensive. I've built mine up bit by bit from all over the place, but my mate bought a halford set and overall its worked out a lot cheaper and easier, and hes got lots more useful things than me (like deep sockets)
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Thanks guys , I can see the logic in only getting a tool when you need it ! I think ebay will be the way to go when I get going ! Talking about a plan of attack I had a look at the stationary engine , took the fuel tank off the mountings , its good and solid with no holes in :-) , had a play around with the carb and the mag ...two hours gone !!! And I hadnt really got any further in restoring anything ,I probably would have been better concentrating on the fuel tank as an easy starter . However the temptation to have a good look at everything thats new was just too strong , I guess thats how you figure out your plan of attack ! Having done abit of reading im thinking about a series 2A , aparrently parts are fairly easy to get hold of . Do these have leaf or spring suspension ? Also Petrol or Diesel ? Cheers again ,cant wait to get started ! Max
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definitely get a series 2a - the best and most original landrover they ever made. series 1 is too basic and flawed, series 3 have too much plastic. Series 2a is good looking, true to the landie values and bloody great fun! Yes, its leaf springs. But in good condition and well oiled they give a good ride. Or you can go overboard and get parabolic suspension which is near coil sprung ride quality. petrol or deisel....up to you really. Less electrical stuff to go wrong on a diesel, but if they do break they can cost a little more. But the flip side is there is less to go wrong with the engine! Petrols are a bit quicker, but have nasty lucas electrics and do pooh fuel economy.
Nick C
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Yea a series 2A definatly sounds good to me , I think id go for a diesel , reliability and practicality is what im looking for ( although im not expecting it to never break down !!) Also I'd rather keep the design as it was intended , so I wont be preplacing the leaf suspension . I was asking a mate of mine about welding car body panels (he's worked as a welder for many years) and he siad that arc welding is allmost impossible on thin car body panels as it burns too hot , a gas bottle welder is more appropriate . Does this apply to welding on land rovers also ? or are they made of thicker arc weldable material ? Im getting hooked allready and I cant even drive !! 4 years at uni.....(my 3 grand loan as just arrived...wonder what I could buy! its tempting , although if I work through uni I'll have a good job and enough money to own a full fleet and landies!!) Cheers , Max

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Max Wilkinson wrote:

Landie panels are definitely a little thicker than most cars - 2-2.5mm vs 1-1.5mm on most cars.
Unfortunately they're made of an aluminium alloy (Birmabright) which appears to be more than a little of a sod to weld. I haven't tried it myself, but I suspect that MiG welding would blow holes in it at best and set fire to it at worst. I stand ready to be corrected by those with more cojones and more welding experience than myself.
P.
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Paul S. Brown wrote:

I have successfully gas and TIG welded it but it's a job for an experienced welder with plenty of time on their hands. Given the price (here anyway) of dead landrovers with good bodywork it's easier and cheaper to replace than repair most body panels (eg SWB rear tub for the equivalent of GBP20)
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snipped-for-privacy@geekstuff.co.uk "Paul S. Brown" wrote:

Gas-weld only, and since it melts before it starts to glow, it's extremely difficult.
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Max Wilkinson wrote:

Go for a petrol - easier to maintain and *much* cheaper if it does die in a major way.

Good move, but a set of parabolic springs are well worthwhile.

Landrover body panels are aluminium alloy (Birmabright). Not easily weldable by the average DIY type, but rustproof so it's not a major problem. The chassis is steel and can be arc welded (or better still MIG welded) but is way to heavy for gas welding. The footwells/bulkhead are lighter steel and can be gas welded although a MIG will make a better job in the hands of a amateur. I have gas, arc, MIG and TIG available both at work and home (I've got a really neat "toy" collection that owes the same money as a cheap house) and I haven't used the gas set for welding anything except the odd exhaust for years. You'll want a MIG (or arc welder) that will go to at least 180 amps for welding the chassis, and don't be tempted to use gasless wire in the MIG as the result is poor to say the least.
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Thanks for the advice , Im ordering the haynes restoration manual this week so after a gander at that I'll have more of an idea of what model Im thinking of getting . Im on with restoring this stationary engine at the moment , the magneto refuses to work (respite me asking nicely many times!) With Landies having batteries and the absence of a starting handle im assuming they dont have magneto's !! Thank god because this is a real problem at the moment . I'll post again once I've got my book Cheers , Max
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