Odd gear change problem

Paul Vigay uttered summat worrerz funny about:

My guess is either slave cylinder or master cylinder seals leaking and hence

If you press the clutch twice without double declutching does it work fine then?

Check the clutch pedal to see if it's moist. I.e. any flid running down it from the master cylinder. Also check the fluid levels.

It could also be the clutch it's self on it's last legs but start by checking the above.. or at least thats what I would do.

Lee D

I had a ballooning clutch line on another car of mine, so some of the pedal travel was taken up by the initial expansion of the clutch hose.

It could also be bad clutch adjustment, so normal pedal movement doesn't move the clutch fully away from the mating face, I had that too, on the same car, but not likely to just appear unless linkage adjustments are loose.

All the above is subject to differences in the disco setup being weird though, I've got no direct experience of discos.

Second gear synchro baulk rings always seem to be the first to wear out - they get the most hammering.

However, it could be caused by a dragging clutch. The clue to this is ease of engagement from rest, usually. Crunching into reverse on a box with no synchromesh on that gear.

I think that motor and a 2001 DII share the same gearbox and I thought that interesting 1st to 2nd changes were par for the course.

The orginal box on my 2001 DII with about 40,000 miles could be a bit tricky. That box failed big time and the replacement recon box more or less required you to double de clutch or pause in neutral from 1st to 2nd when cold, not so bad once warmed up a bit. This appears to have gone way completely now after about 30,000 miles.

I think Dave L is right, it'll prolly be the synchro. My Tdi 300 did it all the time I had it. To test, change from first to second but pause in neutral for a second or two. If it slips smoothly in then, my guess would be synchro. If it is, it'll be worse at high rev changes than at low ones too. TonyB

In a dim and distant universe , Lee_D muttered: [Snippety snip]

Thanks for all the comments, and I had a bit of testing at the weekend. I'm not quite sure what you mean by pressing it twice without double-declutching though. Do you mean just pump it twice without changing gear? Surely if you pump twice whilst changing gear that's the same as double-declutching anyway, if you pump whilst in neutral?

Nope. Perfectly dry and no fluid on pedal. No visible leaks under the bonnet either (or drops on the road where it's parked). Clutch fluid is correct level and doesn't appear to have dropped at all.

Paul

In a dim and distant universe , Ian Rawlings muttered:

That's actually what I thought at first, as if the pedal wasn't being fully depressed, but having checked any obstructions or 'thick' mat on the drivers side, it doesn't appear to be anything inside the cab preventing the pedal being depressed.

In a dim and distant universe , Dave Plowman (News) muttered: [Snippety snip]

Goes into reverse with no problems at all. Same as changing any other gear, and also going from 2 back down to 1. Only seems to do it when changing from 1st to 2nd.

In a dim and distant universe , TonyB muttered:

Ahh yes. Getting warmer. Pausing in neutral for a second does indeed prevent it happening and it then slips smoothly into 2nd gear.

Is synchro easy to examine/test, or is this a job for a garage? I'm a bit of a tinkerer and generally know what I'm doing, but I'm not really a mechanic.

And, thanks for all the suggestions.

Paul

You've tested it. Inspection is just a small matter of removing the gearbox, stripping said gearbox and looking at it. ;-)

I'd try changing the gearbox oil for the LR recommended product.

I'm afraid you have worn synchromesh on that gear. But if you can work round it ok nothing dreadful will happen. The worn part (baulk ring) costs pennies but the labour to replace it hundreds as the gearbox has to come out and be stripped.

Indeed. If the oil is too thick etc this will place additional load on the synchromesh clutches. Often a maker will specify a better oil for the job when it becomes available and this is generally suitable for earlier boxes of the same type.

I have to double-declutch from 1st to 2nd all the time when driving my series 2a, but as its 30 odd years old I can live with it, a newer Disco though is a different matter.

Stephen.

Huh, I have the "pleasure" of driving a 5-yr old truck that required double declutching on 1st, 2nd and 4th. It was built without synchros on 1st, and has no synchros left on 2nd and 4th. 3rd and 5th are fine.....

Alex

I dunno about yours, but mine's never had synchro on 1st & 2nd. Unless that's what you meant, in which case I'll just get back into the corner...

Mind you, with practice, you can change without using the clutch. It saves about half a second going from 2nd to 1st:-)

I regularly drive a truck with 18 non-synchromesh gears. After a wee bit of practise it's easy (so long as you don't bother using the clutch when changing gear).

Oh, I'm constantly dabbing it through the box without using the clutch. Much easier than doing it properly! Makes a nasty noise when you miss though. Changing down into 1st on the move is tricky under any circumstances, it's a crawler gear with no pretence of even having a synchro, and runs out at about 10kph. 4th is the bugger as the most frequent change you have to make is 4-5-4-5-4-5 if the traffic isnt maintaining a constant speed on the open roads. Probably why the previous driver wore the gearbox out in the first place.

Alex

On or around Thu, 08 Nov 2007 11:13:09 +0000 (GMT), Paul Vigay enlightened us thusly:

worn synchro on second?

Same on mine, no synchro on 1st & 2nd, plus a very noisy old worn gearbox that just won't give up.

I had no synchro on 1st on an old 1961 Ford Anglia.

I failed my first driving test in the old Anglia because I could not engage 1st from 2nd when moving, I had to stop before engaging 1st gear.

The driving examiner wanted me to engage 1st when the vehicle was still moving (towards a junction etc), a horrible crunching noise came from the gearbox when I tried, this was in the mid 70s.

I even tried to explained the workings of the gearbox but he wasn't interested and failed me on incorrect use of gears.

Stephen.