Second gear strangeness

Hi peeps.
Ok, I'm getting a bit worried about this now, even though the local dealership failed to find any problems when they gave me a "free health
check"[1].
Basically, on my '94 300TDi Disco, 2nd gear is a bit strange. It's awkward to change to from 3rd, occasionally it'll jump out of gear at low revs and often grinds on the way in. I have developed a tendency to double declutch on changing down (somethign that comes quite easily after my first car whose gearbox was knackered).
Can anyone suggest anythign that I could look for to see what's going on here?
Cheers, Aled.
[1] Actually, they gave the landy the health check not me, but YKWIM. :)
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Sounds like the second gear synchro is not well.
Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk snipped-for-privacy@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
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wrote:

Hi Aled, this is a farily common problem on the R380 g box. Mine has been doing it for the last 3 years.
You don't need to spend money to fix it, if you don't want to. I just pasue slightly when going from 1st to 2nd, and all is well. Problem is synchro ring.
Some people say that different oils help the problem, but not my experience. So a small change to my driving habit, and all is well, especially my wallet.
Cheers
Phillip
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wrote:

Is this what I am getting? Occasional gear grind when changing from 1st to 2nd in a newly acquired 1997 300tdi? I meant to post about it.
There was some discussion about oils a while back and when I was last in at my local dealers I found myself standing next to a mechanic. Now as they over 50 an hour that is not a chance to be missed! I asked about gearboxes packing up at 100,000 miles and he replied, "It is a lot better since we started using the new oil". BTW, that 100,000 is with hard work, so not to worry.
The oil is MTF94 from Texaco. Might help. If you can get some mates interested, it is also a lot cheaper by the 25 litres.
Derry
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The mainshaft modification made much more difference, as it solved the fundamental design flaw (the one they also made with the LT77 gearbox before it!). However, I put MTF in my gearbox (a fresh Ashcroft recon) and it did ease the 2nd gear change somewhat. Hard to tell if it was real or placebo effect though.
I had this problem on the old gearbox and the Ashcroft is slightly worse if anything. However it cures itself once warmed up.
Tim Hobbs
'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i
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If you've evenb driven an MF135 tractor, the bit of gear grinding in a 300Tdi would pass unnoticed!<G>
Derry
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I have that exact same problem with my recon box, for the first 2 changes from 1st to 2nd you have to take it slow or double clutch, this is only when the weather drops below about 10degrees C though. I might have to give MT oil a try at moment have generic ATF from the motorfactors. My personal theory on the problem was that the grease I used on the spigot bush (Molybdenum multipuropse stuff) was to thick at low temperatures and mean the input shaft was still turning until it thinned down a bit.
Fergus

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On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 12:48:20 +1100, Phillip wrote:

Ah good. :) I was going to have a right go at the AA blokey who was a "Landrover specialist" - I have very little clue when it comes to vehicles, so I got the AA to do a full check on it before I bought it.

I'm not sure if it's my driving style (been driving a company car for about a year before this - BMW 318 - bleurg), but I only seem to get it changing down from third. Got really annoying over the weekend, I noticed that occasionally it's damn difficult to get it into second - there's a feeling of obstruction as I try and get it in. Once the revs dropped enough as I was coming up to the junction it just popped out. :(

*grin*
She's[1] going in for a full service this week anyway - it's the first one since I bought her, and I think I could do with someone who knows what they're doing going over her and giving her the TLC she needs. I know then that I've got a good foundation to work from when I try and bodge the job myself. :)
Oh, and if anyone in the Cardiff/Llantrisant/Valleys area is looking for a good Landrover specialist, check out ProMec Engineering. They're in the middle of nowhere outside of Llantrisant, but they're excellent and good value. Call 02920890567 and ask for Ian (tell him Aled with the green Disco from the Central Beacons Mountain Rescue sent you).
Cheers, Aled.
[1] Why I keep referring to the car as a "her" I don't know - the Disco seems _far_ too manly to be a female... :)
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My strategy with this is not to bother changing down, both in the Disco and the 101. With the 101 the change is just about impossible, with the Disco it's just notchy. Usually it works out that I didn't really need to change down anyway - the engine just plods on through.
Tim Hobbs
'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i
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On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:52:38 +0000, Tim Hobbs wrote:

Ah, I tend to utilise engine braking a fair amount, especially after my recent 'incident' - brake fade approaching a roundabout on a callout, hit the brakes hard as I didn't expect the roundabout slowing down from ~90mph coming down a *bloody* steep hill.
Stupid place to put a sodding roundabout... :)
So now my driving style has calmed down a little now that I'm used to driving a vehicle that's just over 2 tonnes. :)
Cheers, Aled.
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On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:44:10 +0000, "Aled Treharne"

Just tried this, and you're right. It's very hard to get second gear at 90mph... :-)
Have a chat with David Round about his ventilated cross-drilled discs and kevlar pads. I've got some waiting to fit if I ever get around to calling Zeus and ordering the caliper conversion kit.
Tim Hobbs
'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i
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On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:05:03 +0000, Tim Hobbs wrote:

*snort* *cough*
*sigh* That's another keyboard fallen to "coffe and snot damage". :)

Hrm, tempting. Certainly somethign to add to the 'When I have a spare few hundred quid' list[1]. :) What with moving down to London I'm not expecting the Landy to see *that* many hills for the next few years, though I've just been told that Telehouse (which is just about next door to the office I'll be working in) has it's own off-road club... :)
Right now I'm trying to picture what "off-road" means in London... :)
Cheers, Aled.
[1] Currently has on it such things as that nice full-length roofrack, a set of BFG ATA's and a few other bits and bobs.
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make sure you have automatic transmission fluid in the gear box, the RED stuff "" DEXRON you really need to have , ie the GM type [ gm=general motors usa/uk !!] .
some garages use a slightly thicker oil and the landrover gearboxes dont like it .
i had a range rover lt77 5 speed gearbox rebuilt and replaced once and when i picked it up i had hell of a job to change gear in it , hence when i got home i drained the transmission fluid out , it was clear and thicker than ATF, i changed it to normal red DEXRON II and all was ok afterwards .
there is an auto transmission fluid as used in JCBs and plant , this is clear in colour but is slightly thicker than normal car type ATF and it doesnt seem to like being put in landy gearboxes .
in cold weather the fluid will be thicker viscosity and so youre gear changes will become a little different than in warm weather use.
you could thin down the present fluid in youre box by adding 1/2 pint of diesel/paraffin/white spirit if you wanted to try it out before changing fluids , and see if it makes any difference to gear changes .
ATF is vegetable oil by the way
some peole may not recommend doing this but it will at least determine if its the fluid viscosity thats at fault and then is not very expensive to change fluids afterwards, or if you want to just leave as it is and drive the thing if you find you have the gear change you ought to have .
there are plenty of tricks used by garages which " fix" things , ie like putting some brake fluid in the pwr steering reservoir of landrovers whose steering boxes leak !!! . it worked on 2 of my landy/rangeys and both are still working ok 5 yrs later .
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On 23 Nov 2003 13:55:39 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (M0bcg) wrote:

Whatever you put in your gearbox, just remember that the pump has to be able to suck/push it round the box so keep away from anything too thick.
In Australia the dealers went from ATF to another oil (can't remeber sorry) and then back to ATF.
Was talking to a chap on the weekend and he is running the Castrol Syntran 75w/85w. He is a very experienced mechanic, so I tend to trust his experiences. He says that while the Syntran is expensive, it is a sysnthetic oil, it outlasts mineral based material, and in the R380, makes gear changes much better. I'm going to give it a try on my next change.
In the meantime I'm getting good at double declutching, or simply using the "slight pause" (spelt correctly this time) technique.
Cheers
Phillip Simpson
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Sounds like the second gear synchro is not well.
Richard

The transmission is the worst feature of the '97 Discovery I recently purchased. Very tricky to shift into 2nd without grinding. When cold (0C) it will not even go in until the trans warms a bit. I end up going 1st-3rd. When warm it shifts OK if you are careful about the path you select for the shifter. The pattern seems a bit strange in that you do not pull straight back from 1st into 2nd. It seems you need to let the shifter go a bit towards centre, then back. In that case it will often shift as though there was nothing connected to the shifter. So I would suggest experimenting a bit on the pattern you use. Pausing between 1st/2nd does also help.
I would sure like to know about a better oil to use and will see if Texaco MTF94 is available around here.
While a bit of grinding may not be a big deal I would be a little more concerned about jumping out of gear. If this persists or gets worse I think you may have a more serious problem. Best of luck.
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