OTish: Thoughts on Speed

There is much debate within the IAM about regular re-tests and it is something that I, personally, would like to see introduced. The IAM does offer additional training and assessment for after the advanced test but I think RoSPA's grading system is very good. If you pass at Bronze level initially then there is an incentive to continue training and try again for a higher level.

Of course, just because a car has the red badge (or green in the case of motorcycles) doesn't mean the person driving is an advanced driver. We see how standards slip all the time. People who must have been proficient when they passed their DSA driving test get progressively worse as time goes by and there is no reason to think that advanced drivers are any different.

Regards Steve G

Reply to
SteveG
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Differences of opinion are what makes life interesting. The word "appropriate" is used to cover things like road conditions, traffic, weather and all those other things we take into consideration without really thinking about them; but both the IAM and RoSPA are hot on not exceeding speed limits. On both tests it's an automatic failure ... if the examiner notices.

Although I don't do it myself, I have no quarrel with drivers who exceed the speed limit where it is both safe and appropriate to do so

- empty motorway at 2 in the morning sort of thing. I have a real problem, however, with drivers who break speed limits all the time just because they think it's okay to do so. Those are the mindless cretins that speed cameras are designed to catch and when they've been convicted four times and banned the roads will be that little bit safer for the rest of us. If that upsets or offends anyone here then tough - I won't apologise for it.

And just to clarify my point before I get inundated with statistics that show speed is not a major cause of accidents ... speeding is just one symptom of an attitude which is not conducive to safe driving. A habitual speeder is very likely to do other irresponsible things whilst driving too, such as being aggressive towards other road users, driving too close to the car in front, not stopping at pedestrian crossings or traffic lights.

Regards Steve G

Reply to
SteveG

Spot on!

Regards Steve G

Reply to
SteveG

Mother"

Reply to
Richard Brookman

||| David, I can recommend the IAM course - being a member myself. It ||| changed my perception of driving skills and my own ability quite ||| dramatically and may well have saved my life (and others) in the ||| process. ||| ||| Regards ||| Steve G

Correct - it makes you examine your own driving behaviour, and that can only be a good thing. But I believe it makes a lot of people complacent. The best thing about IAM membership is the magazine, specifically the letters page. If you want a chuckle at some of the most self-satisfied twits to go into print, it's better value than the Guardian. They are either commending themselves on their superior skills, or complaining about how some drivers under 30 actually dare to overtake them at over 45 mph.

I passed my IAM 11 years ago doing nothing more than a competent drive that would have passed the DoT test. (They had already made the commentary optional, apparently on the grounds that it discriminated against the less-articulate.) I haven't yet found an insurance company that gives the much-advertised massive discount for IAM membership (except the IAM's own recommended company, of course - but they were 20% higher to start with), and I'm considering dropping it at the next renewal. I never show the red triangle - who wants to drive round saying how superior they are? The best thing by far about taking the IAM test was that it made me read and take on board the police manual Roadcraft. That is some seriously good stuff.

I was told (by the police class 1 examiner) that the RoSPA test really is tough - that is something I intend to do some time.

Reply to
Richard Brookman

"And there's one of those.... thingies... on the left... and an... errr.... is it a school? no, I meant a bus stop..."

Reply to
David French

I often sit in awe and wonder at the way SWMBO can drive along in the Discovery in third gear at 40MPH, engine roaring away like a tiger with piles, seemingly oblivious to all around her and yet give a perfectly concise commentary along the lines of

"Number 7's got new curtains" "Ooh, the off licence has got wine on 3 for 2" "She shouldn't be wearing that coat with those shoes"

and so on...

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

Reply to
Tim Hobbs

On or around Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:24:37 GMT, SteveG enlightened us thusly:

agree with all you say; I'm disappointed that the advanced lot are so insistent on complying with limits. There are an increasing number of fixed limits which aren't appropriate to their location all the time.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

On or around Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:25:13 GMT, SteveG enlightened us thusly:

and of course, I now go slower and take more care. but that's after the shunt and repairs... the clever thing would be to do it before.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

I used to think that all the idiots who hog the middle lane, overtake then slow down, pull out and prevent you overtaking etc, were w*ankers and morons. But then I went on a trip to South Wales with a chap from work - let's call him "Richard" (because that's his name).

Richard is as nice a bloke as you'd ever want to meet. Loves his family, kind, thoughtful, would do anything to help somebody out, and so on. He's far from a w*nker or a moron. But he drove like a total pillock - did all the things I described above. Had I been following him, he would have driven me up the wall.

I soon realised that Richard is not maliciously bad at driving, or even aware that he's doing anything wrong. It's just that he is totally oblivious to anything that's going on around him. It simply doesn't occur to him that somebody might want to use the lane he's hogging. Instead of planning ahead how he will deal with, say, a bunch of traffic, he will not notice anything at all until he's on top of it, then have to deal with it as best he can, and as soon as his bumper nudges past the problem, he's forgotten all about it.

So next time somebody really annoys the hell out of you, and you're about to flash your lights or toot your horn, remember it may be Richard you are tooting, and he will have absolutely no idea whatsover that he's done anything wrong. He'll probably feel genuinely hurt at your criticism.

David

Reply to
David French

David> I soon realised that Richard is not maliciously bad at David> driving, or even aware that he's doing anything wrong.

The worst bit is that if you asked him, he'd probably say that he thought he was a good driver.

SWMBO told me once that she was following a relative home from some event on a clear but dark night. When they got back she asked said relative "Did you realise you had your fog lights on all the way home?"

The answer? "Oh, I wondered why the rear window wasn't demisting".

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Reply to
AndyC the WB

When driving around your own local area, or one that you know very weel, it's easy to see limits that are inappropriate. But when you're in an area that you don't frequent very often - or maybe never have been to before - what appear to be inappropriately low limits could be there for very good reason.

The road outside my own house is a good example. It's the A38, dual carriageway and links the M5 with the centre of Bristol. It is a 40mph limit and people tend to think it should be higher but only a few months ago we had a fatal accident when a pedestrian was killed crossing the road. He was using a properly constructed crossing place which is not marked either by lights, zig-zags or even a zebra crossing.

What happened? Two boy racers were speeding away from the safety camera further up the road; one following very closely behind the other. The first one saw the pedestrian and pulled to the right to avoid him ... the driver following didn't have time to react and ploughed into the pedestrian killing him instantly. My house is about

125m from the accident place and we heard the impact despite the usual road noise. The police have calculated that the car was doing in excess of 70mph when it hit the pedestrian.

This is the 5th fatality on that section of the road in 5 years so is

40mph too slow?

Variable speed limits are the ultimate solution but implementing that would be extremely expensive, involving the installation of millions of electronic signs not to mention their regular maintenance as idiots vandalise them time and again.

Regards Steve G

Reply to
SteveG

My dearly departed Dad once told me that learning from your mistakes is great education .. learning from others mistakes is higher education :-)

Regards Steve G

Reply to
SteveG

I'm not sure variable speed limits work well, from my experiences on the M25. The biggest problem is when the limits are down to 40mph, with no congestion and for no obvious reason (sometimes in the middle of the night, for example). When this happens, people soon learn that they're wasting their time and ignore them. This renders them useless, because when there's a real problem, everybody thinks the gantries are crying wolf again.

The authorities would do themselves a favour by paying a bit more attention to when they lower the limit and when they raise it again. Otherwise they just shoot themselves in the foot. Sometimes you get the distinct feeling somebody has pressed the button, gone off for lunch, and forgotten all about it for a few hours. Meanwhile, thousands of cars are pootling along at

40mph on an 8 lane motorway for no reason. It's frustrating.

David

Reply to
David French

SteveG> This is the 5th fatality on that section of the road in 5 SteveG> years so is 40mph too slow?

No, it's not. The problem is that even if you made that speed limit

2mph you'd still have boy racers doing 70.

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+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Andy Cunningham aka AndyC the WB | andy -at- cunningham.me.uk | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
formatting link
- Everything you wanted to know || about the P38A Range Rover but were afraid to ask. |+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+"And everything we want to get/We download from the InternetAll we hear is/Internet Ga-Ga/Cyberspace Goo-goo" -- from "Radio Ga Ga"/"We will rock you"
Reply to
AndyC the WB

IIRC they test the speed signs late at night/early in the mornings, which explains why they appear to be pointless at those times. They do the same thing on most motorways at some time or another.

Regards Steve G

Reply to
SteveG

Oh, I agree, but if the limit was raised to 60 then everyone would be doing 70 not just the boy racers.

Regards Steve G

Reply to
SteveG

This raises another argument. If all the cars were doing 60 then the pedestrian would not have been taken by surprise by the boy racers. Which is no justification for killing someone, nor for raising the limit, but it's a good justification for having real police officers pulling people over rather than fixed cameras that people slow down for then race away from.

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

Reply to
Tim Hobbs

SteveG> Oh, I agree, but if the limit was raised to 60 then SteveG> everyone would be doing 70 not just the boy racers.

Of course. The government says that if you are not exceeding the speed limit it must be safe. So why shouldn't I?

For anyone not spotting the sarcasm in the previous sentence, let's consider an experiment: remove the speed limit completely. That's right, no speed limit at all, just like the German autobahns. Now, measure the speeds travelled down that road for a week or so, and find the 85th percentile speed - in other words the speed that only 15% of the population are exceeding.

Now, make that your speed limit. Any lower or higher will result in a greater accident rate.

I don't have specific references (but can dig them out if anyone really cares), but this is an established research result.

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+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Andy Cunningham aka AndyC the WB | andy -at- cunningham.me.uk | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
formatting link
- Everything you wanted to know || about the P38A Range Rover but were afraid to ask. |+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+"And everything we want to get/We download from the InternetAll we hear is/Internet Ga-Ga/Cyberspace Goo-goo" -- from "Radio Ga Ga"/"We will rock you"
Reply to
AndyC the WB

|| || My dearly departed Dad once told me that learning from your mistakes || is great education .. learning from others mistakes is higher || education :-) ||

LOL - good one.

Reply to
Richard Brookman

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