The almost imperceptible glow ....

Greetings One and all

The almost imperceptible glow .... ... from the ignition light has ceased[1] and now the charge meter[2] is definately recording low.

No other symptioms obvious.

This is in the 110 V8 - early 90s vintage

So, now we're definately running on battery - and we all know that is not a sustainable state of affairs.

Is there a well documented plan of attack or am I into a replacement alternator regardless?

As always, thanks for reading.

[1] Was only visible at night and then only for a few minutes after starting. [2] Has no markings (aside from battery graphic) - not sure if this records current or voltage.
Reply to
William Tasso
Loading thread data ...

1] certainly sounds like the alternator - but alternators are usually repairable, often for a lot less than replacement (see an auto electrician, not a dealer) - last time I had this problem it was a broken brush spring - pulled it to bits myself and replaced it with one from an old alternator I had replaced because of bearing failure. Total cost about two hours, zero dollars. 2] This will be a voltmeter - ammeters have almost never been fitted with alternators, for reasons I won't go into here. Ammeters are distinguished in this application by having a positive and negative scale with zero at the centre.

JD

Reply to
JD

Well, my 1983 110 V8 has a charge meter which looks like that, and is definetley fitted with an alternator.

Stuart

Reply to
Srtgray

Yes, they do exist, but very rare - problem is that with an ammeter the entire current has to flow through the meter unless you use a remote shunt. When alternators were introduced, the current they produced increased compared to generators, and faced with heavier wire up behind the dash or a remote shunt, most manufacturers either used no gauge at all or a voltmeter. Of course, some owners fitted their own anyway. JD

Reply to
JD

Ah the Prince Of Sudden (Unexplained) Darkness strikes again, have a squint at

formatting link
for diagrams of the internal gubbins your local Lucas Centre should be able to supply the bits you need or if you get lucky it could be a simple mechanical fault manky spring muck under the brushes etc. .Derek

Reply to
Derek

Derek uttered summat worrerz funny about:

£550 (Landrover price not inc VAT) Alternator for my last RRC codt £35 to have repaired.

Halfords quoted £115 for an Alternator for the 101, BUT i had to tell them a few lies ... Like it wasn't a 101 cos they don't exist cos they aren't on the computer.

Local Auto shop £40 For 101 Alternator - Bigger one infact than the one I took in though I did have to order and it's not a gen Lucas but one by CJF Rotating Electrics - Dunno how good it will be yet thou as it's still at my feet - Roll on Tuesday 2PM (Exam out of the way!)

Lee D

Reply to
Lee_D

I found a supplier for Alternator brushes at any rate

formatting link
wonder if Kato has an 11AC ? Derek

Reply to
Derek

On or around Sat, 09 Sep 2006 23:24:00 +0100, "William Tasso" enlightened us thusly:

sounds like an alternator. dim glow from the battery light while running is, IIRC, a symptom of failing diodes.

swap the alternator is the easy solution. It is possible to get 'em mended, but y9ou need to have a local alternator-mender to be worthwhile, and moreover to have a fault that's cheaply fixable.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

On or around Sun, 10 Sep 2006 00:43:50 +0200, Srtgray enlightened us thusly:

You can have ammeters and alternators. Trouble with ammeters is they don't actually tell you that the battery will charge, only that current is being sent into the battery. Voltmeter is better as it lets you see the voltage, both on and off-charge. ISTR a voltmeter on my 110.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

On or around Sat, 09 Sep 2006 23:54:34 GMT, "Derek" enlightened us thusly:

possible but unlikely these days. remind us what motor...

11AC is an early alternator with external (separate) regulator. Most alternators now have the brushes built into the regulator unit which is often sealed. Bosch ones, the regulator screws onto the back end of the alternator. Lucas ACR ones have it under the black cover, for example.
Reply to
Austin Shackles

Ideally you would have both, but I agree the voltmeter is more use. However, the ammeter enables you to see the unexpected current drain. JD

Reply to
JD

This is something I've been puzzled about since I got my SIII 109, it has an ammeter fitted to the centre of the three meter holes and three lengths of what looks like original, heavy gauge, wire connected to it but these have been chopped off after a few feet. There's no obvious sign of where they went either. An ammeter doesn't appear on any of the wiring diagrams I can find except for a FFR but I'm told this has always been a civilian, and it's presently 12V. So does anyone have an idea what might have happened?. Just to add to the confusion there is a plate on the driver's side of the seat box that shows the wiring for 24V batteries, I suspect the seat box has been taken from an FFR donor vehicle as I have pictures during a previous restoration that don't show the plate.

Greg

Reply to
Greg

Getting back on topic! ....

Do you get full brightness on the warning light before you turn the engine?

It might be worth checking the connections especially the one from the ignition switch via the warning light to the alternator field coils. Ignition switches have been known to develop high resistance connections in this circuit - does waggling the key around make any difference?

If you have a means of measuring the alternator output (i.e. seeing that there is some life) you could run a jump lead directly from the battery (assuming it has something left in it) to the alternator terminal that goes to the ignition warning light and see is that makes any difference. Don't leave it connected - there should be a permanent drain through the field coils. If there is no drastic change in output (don't bother looking at the warning light, it's bypassed!) you're probably looking at the alternator and repair is frequently cheap. Otherwise, look at the warning light circuit.

Reply to
Dougal

It was available as a factory option Ammeter Kit #607696 (or 607734 if supplied with other electrical extras), includes gauge wiring loom 2 bracket s washers and fitting screws and bolts. an oil pressure gauge was also listed. I knew that download of the Factory Options Series Land Rover would be useful. Derek

Reply to
Derek

I checked the catalogue which doesn't help just gives a part number STC233 the unit has no markings visible except the legend 90 in felt tip so looks like a replacement.No plastic housing but a metal plate shielding the terminals and if I'm not mistaken the diode pack and brush unit.Original fitting according to the WSM is a Magnetti Morelli A127-65 which oddly looks more or less the same and which appears to be a parts bin special fitted to rover 214/414 and god knows what else so thats a cheap source of a replacement (my replacement digital clock cost £4 INC post off a 214 rather than £25 off a Disco) not a problem as it seems healthy enough tho' Derek

Reply to
Derek

Yes - took the unit off the 110 today.

It is clearly marked Magneti Marelli A127/45 - guess that's a 45 AMP unit (which doesn't seem big enough to me). Anyone know the significance of the Type # (A127)?

Unit/loom has one three-way connector. Two h/duty brown wires and one much thinner brown/yellow.

Now then, the metal plate you speak of - appears to be held in place with bolts that are cunningly sized at or near the mid point between my 5mm and

6mm sockets. WTF does one get 5.5mm hex sockets - any drive?

Found a likely looking alternator lurking in the garage - has external black boxes bolted to the case, one connects by lead to a spade, the other is flying loose - rf suppressors? Unfortunately this unit looks to be the cack-handed version IYSWIM - the hinge bolts are the right dimensions but the stabilising/locking bar won't connect. Might get me round the block, but I wouldn't want to go far on that set up.

Anyroad, working on the hypothesis that this is a repairable fault then getting the cover off the original is the next task. Clues for acquiring the necessary socket/spanner appreciated.

Otherwise I may be joining Derek at the scrappy.

Reply to
William Tasso

I have 5.5s out of an old Hilka 1/4 drive socket set 1/5" isn't a common size either but 7/32" is close enough on a true hex socket.I hesitate to suggest Halfrauds but they do sell single sockets unless you are nearby Manchester Derek

Reply to
Derek

I'd be trying a BA socket or imperial - they often fall conveniently into the gaps of small metric sizes - I'm sure you'd have a 1/4" drive socket set somewhere, William?

I find my BA sockets & nutrunners very useful for small jobs like that - I use them more often than my small Torx drivers.

Cack-handed alternators are normally very simple to convert - drill out the thread on the adjuster, undo the three mounting screws & rotate the front till the newly drilled hole is lined up with the other mounting screw - voila, a right handed mount where it used to be left handed.

Reply to
Duracell Bunny

On or around Mon, 11 Sep 2006 00:04:39 +0100, "William Tasso" enlightened us thusly:

check how many bolts hold the 2 ends of the case together. If it's a 3-bolt one then it can be rotated - undo the 3 bolts and turn the one end wrt the other. You'll need to drill out the thread in the adjuster bar bolt hole and use a nut and bolt.

if it's a 4-bolt one (bosch ones seem to be, mostly) then this doesn't work.

You can also convert from 3-blade system - the 2 fat browns go to the output terminal on a bolt-type and the skinny brown-and-yellow goes to... erm... B+ I think. usually a smaller botl terminal or sometimes a single 1/4" spade.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

Which is probably labelled B+ (meaning battery positive and will be the large one)

'Skinny brown-and-yellow' will go to terminal probably marked F (field) or W/L (warning lamp)

Reply to
Oily

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.