Towing out snowed in cars - a cautionary tale!

On or around Tue, 03 Feb 2004 18:02:54 -0500, Mike Romain enlightened us thusly:

bearing in mind the fact that it's rated for 3500Kg in normal use, I'd expect the ball to withstand a steady pull of 8500 Kg.

the problems start when you start doing snatches - you apply a rolling momentum of 2 tons of vehicle to a stationary thing and the forces created are probably much more than a straight pull with your winch.

On or around Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:05:46 -0400, Chris Phillipo enlightened us thusly:

but a trailer that size with over-run brakes applies some fair-sized dynamic loads to the hitch, though.

and anyway, he was asked about pulling a tree in the road, not a stuck vehicle out of mud.

I don't doubt that tow balls do indeed fail, as described, sometimes. I do doubt that it's a common occurrence, and I'd reckon 'em stronger than the factory lash-down/tow points on most stuff.

Excuse me a moment...

[SFX: door opening, footsteps fading into the distance. Slow ticking of nearby clock. Fade in footsteps. Door closing]

The Ford in the garage doesn't have a frame.

The Land Rover has a NATO tow-hook bolted to the frame, but I understand this ancient design couldn't be sold as a new vehicle in the US.

I suppose you can use your winch for self-recovery, but there doesn't seem to be much else you can do with it.

And I'm a bit doubtful about a "tire carrier bumper" as an attachment point; I'd have to take a close look to be sure.

In any event, I still can't figure how a tow truck could do any better. The folk I know over here who have winches seem to have other stuff to help attach to the vehicle being recovered, such as a bridle to spread the load between two points, and there are various methods of absorbing the rebound energy if a cable or attachment breaks. You're giving me the strong impression that you haven't thought through what you're saying, and, unless you have some other use for that winch, you're a bit of a show-off.

Yes, you're right about the risks, but while I've seen towing points on vehicles, for _on-road_ recovery, they're front only, and usually the only attachment point at the rear with any reliable strength in the tow- ball mounting.

Not enough strength for your winch, but that's _your_ problem, not mine.

Really? How interesting.........

Richard

Yeah, like anyone here gives a flying f*ck about clueless, illiterate, off topic, troll-like crossposting wankers...

Crossposting tossers very seldom know where their comments go. They simply hit reply and assume that everyone lives in their own padded little world...

Martyn

Well, if that big tree across the road weighs 5 tons or more (highly unlikely) I'll be sure to call you so you can winch it out.

jeez, get real

Is that as in women, or stuck vehicles?

Certainly looks like you get your moneys worth out of it anyway! :)

Arrogant ejit

You 'are' kidding right?

We must be talking apples and oranges here or something.

Over here in Canada we tend to get stuck in bogs and mud, not just off in a grass ditch or something.

I mean, bumpers get bent and torn off even if the pull is anchored only to it and not a frame tag.

Most of the 4x4's are also pretty heavy vehicles. Even the 'little' Jeep TJ Wranglers are about 4000 lb. I don't know what a Land Rover weighs in at, but they get stuck in there good sometimes.

My Jeep CJ7 has to be anchored to use my winch as a pull for really stuck vehicles, I way in less than 3000 lb, probably a lot less with the fiberglass body.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

That is the proper way to go about it. Most vehicles that are intended for off road come with factory tow hooks and rings.

These are bolted onto the frame with high grade bolts.

Then all you have to watch out for is rotten frames on older vehicles.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

I have come across stuck vehicles that I refused to use their anchor points for an extraction because of rust. That is why I have straps. I can spread the load then.

Here in Canada we have serious rust issues and anyone doing an extraction needs to use his eyes and brains to avoid problems like broken frames, etc.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

While we're asking questions, would you be so kind as to tell us the Safe Working Load of the (wire?) rope on your winch?

Or, if you don't know, the diameter and composition of the (wire?) rope so we can look it up elsewhere?

I have a Warn XD9000i winch with 125' of 5/16 or 8mm aircraft wire rope.

It is rated at 9000 lb or 4080 kg for a single pull (another site has it rated at 9500 lb single pull) and the wire rope has a 4773 kg or 10500 lb breaking point.

for the winch. And for the wire rope specifications, see:

Not the same winch, but the same rope I think.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Oh how safe... someone tell this prat about plasma rope - he won't read my comments as he's not got the courtesy to read the groups in the x-p...

Martyn

> > > > > >

Nope.

Ah right, the UK's bone dry! Must remember that............

I don't know about other makes, but a correctly fitted tow hitch on a front bumper of a Land Rover (i.e. with a spreader plate behind it, between, or in front of, the dumb irons) is effectively part of the chassis, and at the rear it *is* part of the chassis. Applying sufficient force to pull them off would at the very least severely injure anyone in the vehicle during a snatch, and a winch , even of massive proportions, would stall. Perhaps a good illustration of the strength of the front arrangement was at the ARC Nationals at Bordon a couple of years ago when Colin Farrels Diso got bogged down to the chassis (on the camping field!!!)

- it took three Liconshire Club triallers, with kinetics, to snatch him out. No damage was done.

On average, Land Rovers (excluding Freelander) weigh 2 tonnes - a bit less for SWB. The exact figure depends on the spec of the particular vehicle.

Which demonstates that weight, either high or low, has its pro's and con's - personaly I think Land Rovers 2 tonnes is a good compromise, light enough not to sink like a stone, but heavy enough to provide a good bit of inertia when required, such as snatching, perferably with a kinetic rope, and to provide a reasonble anchor for winching - though hitching two together to get a really stuck motor out is the best solution. It's noticable that practically all Far Eastern 4x4's weigh in at pretty much the same figure.

Richard

> > > > > > >

Did they snatch him out by the ball?

bw

>> > > > > > >

Yes - or rather, when trying to get him out backwards it was, he eventually came out forwards, using the lashing eyes. The lashing eyes are definately not recommended for recovery, but they are remarkably strong - mine on the 110 spent 2 years shunting dead motors around my yard with a bar and have not broken, or even bent - much!

Richard