Word to the wise

|| On 2006-07-14, Dougal wrote: || ||| Go on, don't shirk the issue - put the blame squarely where it lies. ||| It's Bliar and his cronies - again. || || I don't think it is entirely, as British law is patched here and || there by just about every government that's ever existed in this || country, there's no apparent focus, and changes seem to be made to || reduce workload and cost rather than injustice. || || The problem of course is that if you try to introduce protection to || keep innocent people out of prison, you have to risk letting the || guilty go free from time to time. Personally I think it's better to || avoid imprisoning the innocent at the risk of letting the guilty go || free, but Blair has recently said that he thinks that the emphasis || should be placed on imprisoning the guilty, even if it means locking || up the innocent by mistake. They're locking up so many innocent || people by mistake these days that they've even decided to save costs || by capping the compensation payments that you can get if you are || thrown in the slammer by mistake, the compensation payments were || costing them too much. Rather than try to stop locking up innocent || people, instead they just limit the compensation payments paid to || those who lose their careers, houses, families etc. || || -- || Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Don't do this to me! I've just come back from holiday and, like everyone else I know, I'm busy planning how I could possibly leave my job and make a living somewhere where the sun shines and the natives are friendly. Posts like this make it that much worse.

|| On 2006-07-14, Richard Brookman wrote: || ||| So why those rules? Who (with a straight face) said, in the dim ||| and distant past, "A truly serious crime like child rape or murder ||| deserves a life sentence, so let's make that - whaddya say - around ||| the fifteen year mark, give or take?" Why call it "life" in the ||| first place if it isn't? || || Yeah, the name is a bit silly. || || It's the political fiddling that buggers things around...

I quite agree with that. But I'm guessing that there was a time when a life sentence meant "imprisoned until you die", presumably as a humane alternative to execution. At some point, somebody must have said "Life needn't mean the whole of his life - let's say that in this case it means at least 30 years", or something, and so it goes until life can mean (I'm sure I have seen) as little as eight years for murder. That makes a mockery of the idea that some crimes are so terrible that they deserve the ultimate punishment. I was asking if someone with the necessary legal background could explain how this has come to be. I'm not of the Daily Mail "life must mean life" school, and I think flexibility in sentencing is a good thing, and overall the judges do a good job. As I said above, serious question.

I reckon there's a lot of (ancient) history in sentencing that's proabably over-due for review. I would hazard a guess that theft gets such relatively large sentences goes back to many moons ago when stealing someones plough, or cow, or whatever was effectively a death sentence to those who no longer had the means to support themselves, particularly through the winter, through their loss.

That's not saying sentences for theft should be reduced, just that (for want of a better term) "modern" crimes need to be taken more seriously with a bit more focus on the victim and potential future victims.

Richard

|| On 2006-07-14, Richard Brookman wrote: || ||| Don't do this to me! I've just come back from holiday and, like ||| everyone else I know, I'm busy planning how I could possibly leave ||| my job and make a living somewhere where the sun shines and the ||| natives are friendly. Posts like this make it that much worse. || || Well, find utopia where none of this s*it happens and send us a || postcard. I won't be holding my breath ;-) Just because somewhere || looks nice on a holiday doesn't mean it's not a shitheap of the || highest order when you've lived there for a few years.

Fair point. I still like the sun, though.

|| It seems Blair wants to choose the latter, because on the face of it, || it sounds tougher on the criminal.... F****it.

Well, we agree on that!

Having be bought up on the west coast of Scotland, I don't handle it too well, you're welcome to it ;-)

hrumph - time was (maybe rose tinted urban myth) when Decent Ordinary Criminals wouldn't take a mans means of support. Just not the done thing.

There's a very strong argument for relating sentences to harm caused rather than actual offence. Would make the law book a lot thinner too.

Solicitors/lawyers not trying to get people off they know to be guilty (rather that try to mitigate the crime, which is fair enough) would do that too! We should get back to operating in the sprit of that law, rather than the letter. i.e. getting off because the copper hadn't wiped his nose type of thing.

Richard

Its all cost benefit analysis and accounts, jails are expencive to build and prisoners costly to maintain. The USA seems to have an almost infinite capacity for incarcerating its citizens with outlandishly long sentences and the three strikes and your out rules which could have you jailed for a real life (not like ours) sentence for some truly trivial offence if you had a record already.

Now the thing is I believe the US system to be corrupt, partial and petty and not caring if the innocent get caught up among the guilty if they happen to be poor and black or mentally "not the full wotsit" to use a terminally un PC phrase here not being all there myself :)

Perhaps however we could export some of our more deserving prisoners over there, after all these Nat West geezers if they are caught up in the system could get longer sentences than murderers do over here and thats not justice.

Whichever way we look at it, there are some folk who are a danger and somebody has to make sure they are never very far from the laws clutches if not actually inside.

Thing is for every berk like this one who is not that hard to spot, there are probably many others under the radar.

|| On 2006-07-15, Richard Brookman wrote: || ||| Fair point. I still like the sun, though. || || Having be bought up on the west coast of Scotland, I don't handle it || too well, you're welcome to it ;-) || || -- || Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Funny that - one of the hottest holidays I have ever had was around Fort William and Oban.

Oban was my "local" town, it must have stank of fish, it did in the winter, let alone summer!

It was hot on occasion, but not as much as down here, and down here's hardly hot all year round. I'd go bonkers if it was always hot.

|| On 2006-07-15, Richard Brookman wrote: || ||| Funny that - one of the hottest holidays I have ever had was around ||| Fort William and Oban. || || Oban was my "local" town, it must have stank of fish, it did in the || winter, let alone summer! || || It was hot on occasion, but not as much as down here, and down here's || hardly hot all year round. I'd go bonkers if it was always hot.

Must have been a freak summer, around 1968-ish. Two weeks, I had never been so hot for so long, got badly sunburnt (this was before the advent of Factor

Didn't notice any smell of fish - actually I really liked the area and made a promise to return one day.

Aargh, the midges! My scalp's started to itch just thinking of them. I'm actually scratching by head right now :-( Them getting in your ears was the worst though.

As for 1968, was scotland invented back then? I was there 1973-1984, on the shores of Loch Melfort on the west coast.

It's one of those places that's easy to visit, not so nice to live in. If you want to be poor somewhere, don't choose the scottish countryside, it's an absolute bitch of a place to be skint in!

There's a lot of nice scenery out that way, an awful lot of it, mostly mountains though, not a huge variation. Blighted by the forestry commission's misguided canadian spruce plantations, if you walk through the depths of one under the trees, there's few birds, no grass, no flowers, not much light, just a carpet of tree droppings. Thankfully they've stopped planting now but it'll take a long time to recover.

I had a similar experience in 1986, loved the place so much & i really liked Loch Long & surrounding areas!

Good old place.

Nige

It's a common misconception that the Scottish west coast weather is poor - in percentage terms it may be but when it's good it's unbeatable. Last year was the first of my summer holidays for seven years that was 'dosappointing' weatherwise in the far NW.

Hardly surprising - the Government in conjunction with the EU have killed off the fishing industry.

Been tried, the antipodians are a result, hardly a recommendation!

I lived in Scotland for 5 years as a kid and loved it, 3 years near Glasgow and 2 near Edingurgh. It's pity can't go back to visit though (I smoke).

Richard

Thanks a bundle. You're off my xmas card list now. :-)

Most of the concerns are directed at the parole system rather than the actual sentencing. The penal system has to incorporate 3 things, punishment, deterrence and rehabilitation.

If there is no reduction or relief for remorse or good behaviour then there is no incentive but the reductions which are given have become disproportionate.

|| If there is no reduction or relief for remorse or good behaviour then || there is no incentive but the reductions which are given have become || disproportionate.

Unless of course you reverse the principle: the sentence is handed down on the assumption of "good behaviour", with the promise of extra time for "bad behaviour".

Ten years for armed robbery. Add 10% to the sentence for every misdemeanour while inside, 50% for each escape attempt, double sentence for assaulting a prison officer, and so on. I know in some cases we would end up with guys inside for a thousand years, and I know it would be expensive, but with a good chance of not getting caught, and lenient sentencing when you are, it's no wonder a lot of people are seeing crime as a viable career alternative.